Repurposed drugs for cancers

Repurposed drugs for cancers
YouTube video by Dr. John Campbell (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBnT8es28WY). Transcript is the auto-caption track — verbatim ASR, not a certified transcript.

but we do want to go on and talk about novel approaches to treatment uh to treating cancers and particularly I want to talk about repurpose drugs drugs with a known safety profile very often very safe um drugs that have been used for decades drugs that have been used on without exaggeration in the case of IC in billions of people um drugs which are very cheap drugs which can be manufactured literally by the ton relatively cheaply because they're often fairly simple molecules and drugs which way may well be highly efficacious against the disease they originally designed for or developed for or isolated for but then um out of Lucky accidents really a serendipitously uh aable to treating other conditions and we have we have a lot of precedent for this so EXA aspirin for example from willow bark was initially used for treating fevers now we realize it reduces platelet viscosity and help can prevent blood clotting and uh various other anti-inflammatory things so this is not unique this has happened quite a few times um I mean there was a drug introduced for uh for treating uh myocardial lemia for angina and it was later used for treating impotence as a surprise as a surprise find so this isn't this isn't unusual but what first arose your interest in oncology I I've started getting into repurpose drugs in when I started my substock in early 20123 and and I I really wanted to do a a deep dive into early treatments for covid-19 yeah uh treatments such as Ivermectin hydroxychloroquine and and I wanted to know for myself you know you know were these were these effective in covid-19 were they not what was the science what was what was the research telling us and and and of course you know when whenever you want to do a deep dive into a topic like that you have to read the papers and so I went and I read paper after paper and I and I read dozens and dozens of paper and I was particularly fascinated by Ivor mechon why why this antiparasitic drug was the focus of so much attention in the United States to the point where the FDA is tell people not to take it uh and yet we have you know as as you mentioned we we have Decades of of prescriptions given of iveron I think four billion doses uh at this point yeah you know excellent safety record around the world yeah uh unquestionable safety record established around the world and yet why why was this a FOC focus of such you know controversy and attention and and as I dove into that research into a and hydroxy chloroquin and so on I discovered a large body of literature uh specifically with icin and cancer and icin in the use of cancer and I found that very odd and very unusual and I and I of course you know I was naturally curious well why why would itin work in cancer how does it work in cancer and so um you know I I did a a PubMed search and and I think something like over 300 peer-reviewed papers come out and and and you know um in regards to itin and cancer now it's all preclinical research and then you start looking at well where are the human trials you know I want to see the human trials as well but you see preclinical research where they you know where they where they're studying the the the cancer cell lines or they're studying it in in mice or rats um but this preclinical body of research on Ivor MN and cancer is so impressive it's not one or two papers you know some a group of research archers tinkering in the lab you know these are dozens and dozens of paper you know extensive research done uh looking at the various mechanisms of how ican might act in cancer uh and what cancers icin impact and it really seems to be a broad anti-cancer agent uh that that can be used in in in in a variety of cancers anything from blood cancers to to solid tumors as well and um it's it's just a such a fascinating uh it's just such a fascinating molecule because when you look at the mechanisms of action now this is an antiparasitic a very successful antiparasitic and yet it has different mechanisms of action in cancer it targets cancer stem cells for example something that I find really fascinating where it's it's able to uh attack these cancer stem cells that don't necessarily proliferate rapidly but you know these are cells that could cause problems in the future that could cause metastasis in the future that could cause cancer recurrence in the future and I and I believe that when you have standard chemotherapy standard chemotherapy will kill the rapidly dividing cells um just based on the nature of of of the rapid proliferation but they will not kill slowly dividing cells often uh and they the chemotherapy may not kill cancer stem cells and so you often hear chemo being referred to as pallative instead of Curative the intent is paliative to you know the they will tell you you cannot cure stage four pancreatic cancer for example you cannot cure stage four ovarian cancer we can buy you time with chemotherapy which will kill most of the cancer and and shrink a lot of the tumors and so on but it will not kill the cancer stem cells and it will not kill cancer cells that are resistant to that chemo because cancer cells can develop a resistance to certain chemotherapy they might have you know these pumps that just pump the chemotherapy right out of the cell and so in in some cases like ovarian cancer specifically these tumors can develop a resistance to chemotherapy that's why the oncologist has to change the chemo and go to the next agent and so on well itin can kill cancer stem cells that chemo can't itin can also reverse what's called multi-drug resistance in cancer cells and so it can actually sensitize cancer cells to chemotherapy it's also a radio sensitizer it can it can sensitize cancer cells to radiation therapy for example as well now it has other actions it can inhibit the tumor's ability to form new blood vessels so it can inhibit angiogenesis icin also inhibits certain enzymes called The Matrix metaloproteinases which are enzymes that detach cancer cells from the tumor and allow it to metastasize and spread to other parts of the body through the bloodstream and so icon will actually inhibit those enzymes um so that it inhibits metastasis of the tumor for example so when you look at it there's a dozen different mechanisms by which icting act acts on the molecular level on Cancers and so then you ask the question why where are the human trials because that's what it ultimately comes down to yes preclinical research is nice we have hundreds of papers on itin and cancer where are the human trials and there aren't any uh there are case reports there's a case series on three patients with leukemia uh I believe two of them were able to achieve some form of remission uh with iveron um and that's it and we don't have any randomized control trials we don't have any large studies in humans and then you find out well ion's been off patent since the 1990s I believe MC held the patent uh the patent expired in '96 I believe and so it's a cheap drug that's off patent and then you realize okay well there's no money to be made in in studying Ivermectin in humans for cancer and where there's no money to be made in oncology tragically there the research just doesn't follow yeah and so and so you see this this focus and this this happens to a lot of repurposed drugs and so for example you look at something like another antiparasitic fenbendazole or mebendazol now this is a different family of antiparasitics than Ivermectin Fen bendol was actually interestingly discovered by a terminal cancer patient uh from Oklahoma uh Joe tippens and Joe tippens had stage four small cell lung cancer which is one of the most aggressive cancers uh known and he had stage four small so lung cancer diagnosis terminal diagnosis and I I believe he was he was put on a trial of Kuda at the time and uh is that is that a regular cancer drug it is a regular cancer drug yes um and and sort of of what they call an immune checkpoint inhibitor yeah and and um so he was put on Kuda and and he tells the story later on that everybody on that trial died he was the only one who survived um and he tells the story of of of how he had a friend who was a veterinarian who said look we there's this parasitic drug this dog dewormer called Fen bendol uh it's been accidentally found to have anti-cancer properties in mice it's cheap it's it's it's safe to take why don't you why don't you try it and The Story Goes that you know he went he tried this this dog dewormer dog medicine I guess you could say and he cured his stage four small cell lung cancer which is completely unheard of I think his his he was given a survival of less than 1% you know sort of a 5year survival of less than 1% and he's still here to this day 7 years later he's cancer free with a stage four small cell cancer diagnosis and so he at the time he would actually go on news news uh shows and talk about his experience of trying Fen bendol which was not FDA approved for use in humans uh and how it cured his his uh or or he believed that it cured his stage four cancer um and and then you know I look into that research that body of research see again there's a ton of pre-clinical research on Fen bendol and there's now been cases published by Stanford University Medical Center of three patients who cure their stage 4 cancer with Fen bendol and the Stanford group looked into it analyzed it you know monitored these patients these patients had all failed three or four lines of chemotherapy they were terminal they took fenbendazole and they are now cancer-free and the Stanford group published this now the Stanford group itself they were not allowed the researchers were not allowed to recommend that drug Fen benzol because it's not FDA approved but they were at least this is now this is what I love about science is that they saw something fascinating they saw something that they thought other doctors and scientists should know about and they published it and uh they published this case series you had actually talked about this the you had you had talked about this paper from 2021 this this series of of three people who' cured their cancer with fenol and so there is an FDA approved version of fen bendol called mebendazol uh there is it's structurally almost identical there's one atom difference between fendol and mebendazol mebendazol has been approved by the FDA as an antiparasitic drug for use in children and adults and so it it has an an incredible safety profile very safe to use and mebendazol actually has a dozen uh clinical trials uh in which it's being looked at as a as a cancer agent as a repurpose drug for cancer and so I think because of its status as an FDA approved the drug there was much more willingness in the oncology Community to do trials with it and so there are trials in adults looking at colon cancer and various prostate cancer and there's also trials in children looking at brain cancers with mebendazol um and and and again this is an antiparasitic drug that has a dozen mechanisms of action one of the fascinating mechanisms of action in cancer is that it blocks glucose Transporters on cancer cells and so it it sort of starves the cancer cell from being able to use glucose as a fuel source specifically in cancer cells and not on normal cells yeah exactly glucose transporting in cancer cell that's amazing so there must be something biochemically different about the glucose transporter in cancer cells compared to ordinary cells that it's able to specifically Target exactly and what's fascinating about these repurpose drugs is they are very specific to cancer cells they are somehow identify a a cancer cell from from a normal cell and and and this been studied in icin as well is is icin is actually able to identify lymphoma cells and act on them and it's able to also identify normal cells and it doesn't have that same effect on the normal cells um it's what we call a Magic Bullet it it is it is absolutely fascinating I encourage anyone look you know look into the the preclinical research it is it is absolutely fascinating and and the the the the the mechanisms that we're talking about here that you're talking about are based on known biochemical Pathways this this is not something new this is this is understood biochemistry and this interfere these these drugs interfere in a particular biochemical mechanism in in a known biochemical way this is not speculation I mean biochemistry is a biochemistry is basically a hard science I mean medicine's a bit soft around the edges but but but biochemistry is a hard science it's it's bench chemistry and uh AB you can't really argue with that and the fact that it's got multiple mechanisms of action on multiple biochemical Pathways and that's true for I mectin and the mebendazol F bendol group that's right it's just it's just absolutely incredible that these natural molecules seem to have these multiple modalities of action and yet uh and yet we're staring the gift horse in the mouth exactly and the research is very very solid uh the research on the mechanisms the preclinical research is very solid this is not one or two papers this has been you know replicated this is hundreds hundreds of papers for these antiparasitic drugs so so this is not you know this is not a conspiracy theory this is not this is not Fringe medicine you know hard science as hard as it gets abely this is hard science um and and I and I love you know I I'm I'm always fascinated by by by preclinical research because that is what we that is what we stand on that is what the rest of medicine stands on is is the preclinical research that's what we rely on as as Physicians and that's what gives us the plausible mechanisms of action because if you can't give a plausible mechanism of action well you're not fulfilling an essential Bradford Hill criteria apart from anything else but you know if you can say well this is the way it's working then that that's what takes you into science away from mumbo jumbo because we've got we've got existing science and this this pharmacodynamic effect the way this drug is working is dovetailing with what we already know with multiple points of consistency with what is already known exactly and and so I found myself in a situation where I was writing articles on on on substack I was writing articles about turbo cancer potential mechanisms uh you know we talk about this brand new pathopysiology of turboc cancers and so uh I have I have a paper uh that I co- authored uh on the igg4 shift uh that could be one of the potential causes of turboc cancer um where we see uh someone who's had let's say multiple vaccines they they end up with an an immune uh immune system shift where they start producing different types of antibodies and instead of producing igg1 and three they start producing igg4 which is an antibody that creates tolerance to something like the spike protein but uh it also starts to tolerate cancer uh and and so i' I've I've been you know I've been involved in some of this research uh in trying to figure out the mechanisms but now I'm shifting towards I'm shifting towards treatment and I'm shifting towards looking at well can we help patients with turbo cancer how can we help them um and certainly you know I I encourage everyone to pursue all the options in mainstream oncology you know pursue all the options whether it's chemotherapy radiation therapy therapy you know you have to pursue all those options you have to have those discussions with your oncologist but what else can you do uh what if you're out of options what what other options are there and I think this area of repurpose drugs you know is something that that we can try as clinicians uh something that we can uh look into uh advise patients on and a lot of patients themselves are you know they look at look at some of these purpose drugs and and they start taking them they they start you know they start taking them themselves so as I was writing about uh as I was writing about icin and fendol and mebendazol in cancer I had patients who actually started taking them and then they would come back to me 6 months later and say Dr Maus you know I read your articles and I I took these on my own um you know there was no patient you Doctor relationship or anything like that they took them on their own and they come back to me and they say my my cancers are shrinking um my oncologist is shocked my oncologist told me I shouldn't be alive anymore and yet I'm here my cancer is stable uh and so I keep I kept getting story after Story you know in one or two stories you say that's fantastic I'm you know I'm really happy for you that you know that's really terrific uh but when you get a dozen or two dozen stories like that and that's what happened to me is I started having so many patients coming back to me that I thought you know there there there's something here where I could actually be helping patients with I could be helping them with Ivermectin I could tell them about the side effects potential side effects I could guide them in dosing for example how do you dose these things right how do you find the appropriate dose for the appropriate condition and so this is what I've been working on for the last two years I did start a Cancer Clinic or or sort of a cancer coaching or health coaching program with repurposed drugs where um you know I I have clients cancer clients that come to me we discuss the research we look at the research um and we talk about repurpose drugs and what repurpose drugs they might use and want to try themselves and and and so this is where I've been trying to go from just identifying the problem saying look we've got this explosion of cancers these turbo cancers aggressive cancers to actually helping patients and give them some options that they can use and I've had some fascinating results uh patients I've had uh you know a number of stage for pancreatic cancer patients who've been now declared cancer free cango carcinoma patients ovarian cancer patients whose tumors are shrinking uh even though they failed multiple lines of chemotherapy and so these are Cancers that were absolute death sentences exactly exactly and and and another feature I wanted to just mention um is that these repurpose drugs when you look at the preclinical research they have Synergy with chemotherapy they have Synergy with immunotherapy uh and even radiation therapy in some cases and when I was I was amazed at the radiotherapy one that you can actually sensitize a drug to uh sensitize a cell to radioinduced cell death is just incredible it's just brilliant it's it's fascinating you know because because when you look at some of these mechanisms some of them are known and some of them are still unknown and and you you see all these all these all these all these biochemical pathways that htin acts on and all these Pathways where you know it it it changes the expression of certain proteins and then suddenly you you stimulate apoptosis of of the cancer cell the the cell just goes pop and dies exactly the the programmed cell death and and so a lot of these Pathways that icin fendol mebendazol act on are proapoptotic Pathways uh where you are you're bringing that cancer cell towards this programmed cell death and you're also you know this idea of of of being able to remove drug resistance a a cancer cell that has developed drug resistance to me is absolutely fascinating yeah how how can you possibly reverse that that's just it's just I mean it's wonderful but it's uh it's biochemistry well beyond my level of understanding that's for sure really is it's pure biochemistry and sometimes even I have a hard time understanding some of these Pathways you know but I certainly do but it really you know the fact that it can affect expression of certain proteins and so on it's just it just it's incredible and and so it I think repurpose drugs I think there's there's a big future in repurposed drugs uh and and I think repurposed drugs can give patients hope in situations that are very dire and and and in the past would be considered hopeless um and we're dealing with drugs very safe very limited side effect profile can nearly always be given with or all the regular what you might call Standard Cancer Treatments exactly and and for people who've exhausted the standard Cancer Treatments stage four pancreatic cancer for example um why not why not try something that's not going to do you any harm you know if you want to change the brand of whiskey that you drink in the last days of your life then then fine fine try it you know and but but something like this that is potentially uh can potentially improve the condition is is is is is just incredible and I am optimistic again in the states that that the right to try is going to be reintroduced uh that people who are terminal can basically try whatever they want and I agree with that um one of the things I always used to teach my students was in in acute care some P sometimes patients are going to die and you you always have to be in a position where you can walk into the relatives you can tell them about this tragic death and you can say we tried absolutely everything at our disposal now that's not always true tragically but we should always work to that situation we tried absolutely everything we've got in 2025 nothing else we could have done and so many people are dying now and that is not that cannot be said you're absolutely right I'm trying not to get cross now um it's just not acceptable you're absolutely right in in that um the state of oncology in in let's say in North America for example because I'm very familiar with state of oncology in North America but I do have patients in the UK in Ireland in Australia I have a global I have a global clientele and so I do get insight into how oncology is practiced uh elsewhere but the state of oncology in North America is that oncologists have these rigid guidelines and protocols that they follow and same in the UK yeah and you have you know your first line chemo second line chemo maybe you you can throw in some immunotherapy in there of course radiation were appropriate and so on but but they go step by step through these rigid guidelines and they come to the end and they tell the patient sorry there's nothing else we can do for you but but that's not true that's not true there there's a whole body there's a whole area of of let's say um repurpose drugs that you don't even know about that you you don't even tell your patient about and and we run into the situation I have patients from Mayo Clinic I have patients from John's Hopkins memorial stone kering MD Anderson you know Dana Farber these leading centers leading cancer centers in the United States and the patients come to me and they say you know my doctor is saying you know I'm out of options or I'm running out of options or or they have nothing else to offer me and it's not true there is something that they can offer but I I always have this discussion with with patients that you know your your oncologist probably is not allowed to offer you anything else or to suggest anything else because there may be retaliation there may you know their their licenses may be targeted their jobs may be targeted and they the oncologists it's true the oncologists don't have the freedom to go off script as I would say or go outside of the guidelines true but there's still big ethical questions there AB if I know if I know something that might save someone's life and I don't tell them that's got big ethical questions but I want to I want to enter a completely academic discussion now and look at um doses of these drugs if we start off with with uh let's start off with icin what sort of doses might we be thinking about for what's maybe just give some examples of conditions that you've where you've got personal experience the starting dose uh that I look at with icin is 1 mgram per kilogram per day quite high and it is a little bit High uh I always say this is about five about five times the those that you would use for covid-19 or or a parasite infection for example is is is this with what level of cancer is this with sorry this would be with with with most cancers sort of intermediate to highgrade cancers now for low grade cancers you could certainly start lower at at half a half a milligram per kilogram per day and so for a 60 kg person uh typical starting dose would be about 60 Mig of icin but for low grade C something like CLL chronic lymphatic leukemia that's been you know simmering for many years or maybe maybe multiple Myoma I start lower at at half a milligram per kilogram so that'll be something like 30 milligrams of icin a day uh and that's more in the range of a dose for a viral infection or a parasitic infection and is that six days a week that's 7 days a week 7 days a week for how many weeks uh well so I suggest um patients try icin of for cancer for 3 months and I'll tell you the reasoning behind that uh and then with a reassessment of some kind looking at blood work uh cancer markers for example or looking at follow-up Imaging um the reason why I say 3 months is because from my experience I have seen uh a response to icin on cancer markers as early as 3 4 weeks so this is uh markers like prostate specific antigen PSA we could see a drop in the PSA we could see a drop in CA or ca125 or these other more specialized uh markers for breast cancer for example these are basically chemicals given off by the cancer cells exactly and you can you can see those start to drop now they are they're not perfect tests but they are surrogates for cancer activ level of cancer activity or the level of T tumor burden uh how much cancer how much active cancer is there that where these cancer cells are producing these markers you could see those markers start to drop and you can actually start to see uh the activity of the tumors start to drop on a on a pet scan a positron emission tomography scan uh in about a month but it takes a little bit longer to start seeing tumors physically shrink uh lymph nodes shrink you know primary tumor shrink that takes about 2 to 3 months to to see that to start seeing that on Imaging like MRI petct or CT so you want to give it a good 3 months to see if if you've got if you have a response you could you could you could monitor it on the blood markers um within a month or so you could start seeing if there is a response and then after 2 3 months you could actually start seeing uh responses on Imaging and I'll tell you the most dramatic results that I've seen and I get attacked from both sides I get attacked from conventional oncology on this and I get attacked from the sort of Health Freedom Movement on this but the best results I've seen in my patients are patients who are doing a combination of chemotherapy and ican um and then combine it with either fendol or mebendazol as well and but when you do the combination treatment there's a certain Synergy uh and and that Synergy is documented in pre-clinical research uh where you get a lot more cancer cell killing with the combination than with any of those agents by cells well it's consistent with what you were saying before about the sensitization of the malignant cells exactly it do it does make sense and this precedent for this again things like lowd dose nxone can can sensitize people to exactly conventional um chemotherapeutic agents so those sort of doses of icin we're talking about I mectin on its own or with traditional Cancer Treatments is that that's right yeah so so that's kind of almost like a monotherapy isn't it with with icin well in the sense the fact monotherapy in terms of of of the the pre purpose therapy you can be giving it with a range of other traditional oncologist prescrib drugs yeah and and and so you know when you are giving it with with uh with chemotherapy it's sort of an adjunct in the sense that that you're sort of adding it into you're adding it into your chemo y regimen and and patients will take the Ain throughout the chemotherapy regimen I will tell you another fascinating story of a physician assistant I have in the United States who had already done four cycles of of of chemotherapy and started taking uh itin and um you know I had suggested some dosing for him and so on and the first thing he told me was with my fifth cycle I had no chemo symptoms and he was playing golf the next day and and he said usually the chemo will knock me out for 3 days I can't do anything for 3 days and you know I started taking itin and then I all my chemo chemo symptoms were gone and he was playing golf the next day and he couldn't believe it and the same thing happened the next cycle and then the next cycle after that you know and then his markers were were dropping as well and and he was having a fantastic response so if he only took it to to reduce the side effects that would have been worthwhile exactly and so the icin in many cases actually uh is able to reduce the side effects of the chemotherapy and I think uh part of that may be because ivorine does seem to have a very powerful anti-inflammatory component as well and so I have I have other patients who don't who don't have cancer who I've I've I've guided um with ivermectin for example patients with rheumatoid arthritis whose symptoms improve dramatically patients with fibromyalgia patients with Lyme disease for example uh I've seen dramatic improvements in these situations where patients been suffering uh with with this with a chronic inflammatory condition for many many years and they they get you know rapid relief with Ivermectin within a few weeks of taking Ivermectin and this would be again a lower dose about a half a milligram per kilogram for you know these inflammatory conditions so I've seen traumatic response for inflammation but like you said even if it was just for you know improving the the patient quality of life during chemotherapy it would be worthwhile because the side effect profile of iin is so favorable quite incredible this the anti I wasn't aware of that such a strong anti-inflammatory effect I must say um now the the the the side effects with these sort of higher doses um are you seeing side effects what side effects do you see I'm seeing some transient side effects when if you've never taken icton before and you you start at 1 milligram per kilogram per day for 60 kgr person that's 60 Mig of icin you may have some transient visual symptoms the the visual symptoms have been described as uh uh seeing colors a little bit more vividly or seeing a little bit of stars uh it's almost as if when you get up too quickly and you have that that effect that you might you might faint uh so there's been visual symptoms described now these are temporary uh they may last anywhere from from a few minutes to a few hours and they do go away with time you know after one or two weeks of icin use the body seems to get used to it and they go away even maintaining the same dose of icin exactly right and and so there's there's reports I mean there's reports in the literature um of of icin being used at 1 milligram per kilogram for up to a year with with no side effects and there's been no long-term effects uh reported with icin use either now if no no non-reversible neurological effects that you've ever come across no now you could push the dose higher to 2 milligram per kilog per day but you have to be cautious uh when you go to those higher doses now I've had I've had some successes going to the higher doses especially with very aggressive cancer pancreatic cancer for example I had a patient who who who cleared his pancreatic cancer with a few months of icin 2 milligrams per kilogram per day uh but there you can start to get uh especially in in more elderly patients you might get some confusion you might get some instability on the feet uh and so you have to be more careful going into the higher doses uh again ivin has a half life of 18 hours so if if you do run into some side effects you stop it's out of your system within two days um and again no no long-term effects but you have to be a little bit more careful with icin if you want to push the the higher doses I did hear I think it was on Joe Rogan um there was a doctor on on there um forgot his name now anyway um he said that someone got benefit with just from prostate cancer with just 12 milligrams of icin a day for several weeks is that biochemically feasible or do you think that dose is too small to no it is and and I I have seen I have seen some really uh impressive responses um to a lowd do iycon as well so there is a wide range of dosing and it really does seem to vary from person to person and it it really varies from from I I I Almost Say say cancer cell type to cancer cell type cuz I could have two prostate cancer patients and one will respond to 12 milligrams of ivermectin and the other one may not respond to 60 milligrams of ivermectin and and so there's a wide range of dosing that that's where this becomes a little bit tricky and I think where patients need some guidance uh in terms of dosing and response because the cancer cell killing is dose dependent it is these are things we need to learn of course this is not established pharmacology is it AB I think this is where we need we need those human trials we need researchers to be supported in this kind of work uh and and regardless of the fact that there's no money to be made at the end of this right that there's no money to be made for some pharmaceutical company or shareholders of a pharmaceutical company this is for patient benefit and this is where you know where where a physician or a scientist is doing something for a patient's benefit rather than for financial interests or corporate interests and we need support of this kind of research I think repurpose drugs there's so much research that that so much good research that needs to be done and so with this dosing of icin you know there is a there's there's a wide range uh of Effectiveness and I have seen Effectiveness as low as 12 milligrams I can tell you if you're combining it with chemotherapy you can get away with lower doses of ican inter uh and you will see a dramatic response and the way most of my patients are not telling their oncologists that they're taking icin and I always you know I'm of the opinion you want to be honest with your doctor you should be honest with your doctor but if your doctor doesn't have your best interests at heart uh then you run into this complicated situation so a lot of patients are not telling their doctor and the situation means the data is not being collected really that's true if this is working you know the oncologists are going to be thinking they're a lot clever clever than they actually are exactly and so what happens is the oncologist then has a genuinely shocked reaction M when they see an outcome of their chemotherapy regimen that they're not used to seeing and and and and I've seen this even with radiation oncologists where tumors are shrinking after two or three radiation treatments and the radiation oncologist is is shocked they're like wow you had an amazing response to just a couple of radiation treatments because they're not used to seeing that kind of response they have no idea that there's Synergy going on with icin where the icin sensitized the tumor and that's why the radiation is shrinking the tumor's dramatically but the radiation oncologist doesn't know that and the and the patient is too scared to tell them because most of the time when my patients have told their oncologist that they're taking icin or fendol mebendazol the oncologist has a very bad reaction to the point and this happens in the UK this happens in Canada this happens in Australia to a lesser degree in the United States the oncologist will actually threaten the patient that if they do something like this that they'll drop them as a patient which to me is very unethical but this is that's that's bully boy we to me bullying it's bullying exactly and but this is this is what patients face and and you know I'll have patients tell me I made a mistake I shouldn't have told my oncologist you know I wanted to be honest I wanted to be open and now they've threatened me they said we'll kick you out of the trial you know we we'll we'll stop treating you this doesn't happen as much in the United States I find in the United States that culture it it's not as it's the bullying behavior is not there the oncologists are more open I've had oncologists say you know that's perfectly fine you can take Ivor mton with this regimen no problem but once you go go outside of the United States especially in countries like Canada UK Australia there's a lot more of this bullying Behavior and the the idea that a doctor should threaten their a doctor should threaten their patient is justable it's unethical it's unprofessional it shouldn't happen but unfortunately it does does uh and so patients have learned that it's better not to their oncologist and their oncologist doesn't even want to know so when they have a good response my patients will tell me my my oncologist didn't ask any questions didn't ask if I was eating different if I was doing anything different didn't want to know didn't care we have we have a name for this in England uh actually comes from Australia but it's called curiosity deficit disorder and uh it's quite a debilitating condition absolutely and especially in in in oncology it's to not have curiosity to not yeah this is what science and medicine's all about oh oh why is that happen what's going on there oh you know because imagine you know as as ANC I mean you know you could publish it as a you could publish it as an interesting case report you know or maybe even a case series uh why why not why not ask the questions um you know there there was a situation a couple of case reports have been published with with CBD oil canab a dial um where where patients there was a couple of 80-year-old patients they had they had lung cancer and they refused chemotherapy they said look I'm 80 years old I don't want chemotherapy and and the oncologist said okay well we're going we're going to continue monitoring you anyways and then suddenly the lung lung lung cancer is shrinking shrinking and it's gone a few months later and of course now that this these oncologists actually asked the question they're like okay what are you doing yeah we're not treating you why is why is your cancer gone and the patient tells them well I've just been taking CBD oil a few drops a day you know under the tongue uh for the last few months and they went and they published those case reports that is what oncologist should be doing they should be inquisitive they should be asking the question they should be willing to learn and there's this just absolute absence of willingness to learn yeah yeah so mendol and Fen bendol both end in a all so they're in the same group uh do they have similar doses they do um so it's a family of antiparasitics called benzimidazoles two of them are FDA approved and that's mebendazol and albendazol and so you will you will find albendazol is also uh available um and and some doctors are willing to even prescribe mebendazol and albendazol and then fenbendazole is is sort of the almost like the stepchild or or the you know it's it's not FDA approved and yet it's in the same family with very similar almost identical mechanism almost identical molecule yeah of action and so uh Incredible family um extensively researched and there are a number of I would say about a dozen clinical trials ongoing right now with mebendazol in cancer looking at pediatric cancers looking at adult cancers um and so it this is again this is not Fringe medicine this is not fringe science this is something that's being seriously looked at nothing published yet that I'm aware of though uh in terms of mebendazol you're right I I think there's there's some phase two phase two trials ongoing um so it's yeah you're right but um it is being looked at seriously at least meend that's encouraging and and and so that that is you know that is great now Fen Fen bendol gets attacked because it's a medicine commonly used you know it's a dog medicine it's a as they call it a dog dewormer and yet it it's got an excellent safety profile just like mebendazol I've I can tell you having advised over a thousand patients on the use of ivermectin fendol and mebendazol um there's there's this myth that uh the fendol mebendazol are difficult on the liver that they can damage the liver and so on uh they can raise the the the liver function tests liver enzymes and it's it's quite rare it's very rare um I just don't see it but if it did happen in you stop the drugs or reduce them the liver's got remarkable powers of regeneration hasn't it so well absolutely so if if you do get elevated liver function tests and I see it in less than maybe less than 3% of patients I see elevated liver function tests you stop it for a few weeks and those liver function tests if it was the fendol or mebendazol they go right back down to normal this has been published in peer-reviewed literature as well that there's this sort of transient you could almost call it an irritation of of the liver in a sense where you get this sort of transient uh spike in liver enzymes you stop it for a few weeks and it comes right back down and then you can start again exactly and so again excellent safety profile uh established and um really just uh I've seen some incredible incredible responses and I combine the iveron with either a fendol or mebendazol I do a combination there does seem to be a synergistic effect there doesn't there but can we look at the doses first of all so for treat I've been treat eting worms with mebendazol for probably about 40 years 100 milligram tablets um so so what sort of doses of mebendazol and Fen bendol might you be using for for uh various types of cancers a typical dose I suggest is a thousand milligrams a day uh split in two doses and that's the same whether it's mebendazol or offen bendol exactly so either a thousand ofen bendol and and you know the the Stamford uh case series that you had you had talked about um on another program uh they had done 1,000 Mig of fen bendol I believe it was 3 days on 4 days off uh and achieved remarkable success achieved remission from stage four cancer three days on four days off yes so that was what what what the group of patients were doing at Stanford I tend to use Six Days on one day off um a little bit a little bit more aggressive dosing and same thing with mebendazol th000 milligrams 6 day on one day off one day off is that just to give the liver a bit of a break exactly you you give the liver a bit of a break um and again incredible results now you could you could you could go less you could go either 500 of fendol and 500 of mebendazol if you're dealing with a low grade cancer uh maybe a very early stage situation I have a lot of patients coming to me with early stage prostate cancer maybe they don't want the surgery and radiation therapy and they are looking for a way that they can maybe shrink the tumor or get rid of it all together um without having an intervention and the risks of of those interventions so you could you could do lower doses like 500 milligram of for for how long again I I I design my protocols for three months and I and I always and I and I I've done this with iin and fendol and mebendazol and it's roughly the same idea is is you can start to see changes in in cancer markers in about a month takes about 2 to 3 months to start seeing shrinkage of lesions and typically oncology patients especially when you're dealing with active disease chemotherapy immunotherapy they will have follow-up Imaging every 3 months or so and so you will automatically have that Imaging from your oncologist uh if not I I encourage patients to make sure that they have Imaging followup uh from their oncologist and so you can see after 3 months or after 6 months if there's been a response uh to the lesions uh and so I had I had a situation recently with a breast cancer patient who had her surgery was delayed for whatever reason and and she had a several months of weight time to her surgery she had a 7 cm breast tumor by the time so she was taking itin and mebendazol by the time by the time her surgery came around and there were some enlarged lift nodes as well by the time her surgery came around the tumor was less than 3 cm and there were no positive lyph nodes where they were certain that there were going to be positive lift notes based on based on the Imaging appearance so she had shrunk her tumor by more than half and managed to eliminate uh some of those lyph nodes entirely by the time she had her surgery and this was a matter of maybe 3 months it's amazing so so in things like breast cancer and prostate cancer the the traditional treatments will involve hormonal modification yes so so for example testosterone blocking for prostate cancer um what sort of interactions if any are possible there with with say Fen bendol and testosterone blockers there's no documented interactions that I'm aware of um and you know what's interesting when you look at drug drug interactions with whether it's itin whether it's mebendazol there's not a lot of drugs that that they interact with in in a negative way and so for example for Ivermectin you have to be aware that itin does interact with warin um and so you have to be aware of that doesn't seem to interact with any of the other um anti-coagulant and then there's certain um antis psychotic medications I believe that also interact uh with icin so um you know there's a few drug interactions to be aware of wol is pretty uncommon these days we tend to use more the more modern generations of uh anticoagulants exactly so so it really hasn't come up as as an issue the drug interaction so there doesn't seem to be any interaction with any of the hormone therapies uh whether it's for breast cancer whether it's for prostate cancer um you know you are you are getting that you're getting that benefit of of the other mechanisms uh anti-cancer mechanisms from the icin or the mebendazol that you're not going to get that from chemo you're not going to get that from immunotherapy you're not going to get that from hormone therapy yeah um is is there a is mebendazol or fendol preferable for treating human cancers or they much of a muchness they are when when it comes to preclinical research they are very very similar especially at higher doses yeah mendal me Abol is preferred um now mebendazol has has better penetrator penetration through the blood brain barrier than Fen bendol so it would be the preferred agent for any kind of brain tumors central nervous system yeah exactly or or brain metastasis uh and there are certain cancers in which uh there is more preclinical research for mebendazol and this would be the squa cell carcinomas breast cancers sarcomas um I'm just trying to think it's interesting that you're getting really quite specific there particular drug for particular pathology so so knowledge is accumulating rapidly in this area that's right and and I do I do still lean heavily on on peer-reviewed uh research even if it is preclinical research you know if there is preclinical research I do want to lean on that and I can tell you I can give you one example actually for ovarian cancer for example uh ovarian cancer I prefer mebendazol over fendol and and why is that well there's researchers in South Korea who've discovered that uh when they um when they researched fenbendazole for aarian cancer there's excellent response um in in in vitro studies but it doesn't translate to invivo studies when they were looking at mice the effect didn't didn't translate to the same degree and so they've been experimenting combining putting Fen bendol into various kinds of nanop particles uh as as delivery mechanisms so they could deliver the F bendol to the tumor in a much more efficient way and there's been three studies that have come out looking at various delivery mechanisms various types of sort of nanop particles formulations with Fen bendol and solubility is fairly low isn't it that's probably why you need the higher doses exactly and so I'm aware of that research I'm aware that there's been struggle with Fen bendol You know getting that drug to the ovarian cancer cells or to ovarian tumors And yet when you look at the mebendazol research in ovarian cancer there is evidence that uh you know it is quite effective uh in halting PR proliferation and so on so I do lean on existing research uh to decide whether I'm going to use or suggest mebendazol versus fendol interesting how optimistic are you that as we know more we'll be able to give for example icton and Fen Benders all together enjoying the synergistic effect and being able to lower the dose you know I I think in a way I would say the cat is out of the bag in in the sense that uh this information is getting out yeah and and it's getting out on platforms like X it's getting out on platform you know it's getting out on sub through substacks uh there's other authors you know writing about using itin F bendol or combinations thereof and so so once information gets out and you no longer have this um suppression because I I would say the oncologists in a way are suppressed in that oncologists who did pursue uh non-conventional treatments historically have been targeted their licenses have been targeted they they've they' they their reputations have been targeted they often had to flee the country you know we have a doctor in Canada who was using repurpose drugs Dr Khan who had to flee Canada after years of battling with the College of Physicians and surgeons and now he's in Florida and he's got a clinic in Florida he he had to leave the country and and other doctors look at that and say well why would I risk my career and the well-being of my family to pursue repurposed drugs I'm just going to stick with the guidelines that I get from the American Cancer Society or Canadian Cancer Society and I'll be fine right and so so the culture the culture has been very um uh unfavorable towards repurpose drugs or unconventional treatments and but that's changing and I think it's just the sheer amount of information that is getting out right now um I think um I I think it's going to change medicine and and and I do believe that that with the new Administration in the United States with with you know RFK Jr uh being confirmed and and bringing in People based on again based on Merit and and and bringing Freedom back to science and medicine I think I think we have we're going to have a whole new era in medicine where you know I think we will have Research into repurpose drugs and I think it will become part of the mainstream I think it will be become a part of mainstream medicine and mainstream Cancer Treatments just to pict you that a lot of people are going to die in pain before we get to that point which is uh is quite tragic how important do you think it is to be vitamin D replete when you're getting these repurpose drug treatments vitamin is is is very crucial um and I I have found that U it was crucial for covid-19 uh I think there was a lot of evidence that most of the patients who did very poorly uh with covid-19 infection who had severe infections ended up in the ICU or died were vitamin D deficient uh and and I think that's been borne out by many studies and you know it seems to be the case in cancer as well uh vitamin D seems to be protective uh for cancer so being having high enough levels of vitamin D seems to be protective for you developing certain types of cancers uh but I think also as as a cancer patient um it's important for you to have high levels of of vitamin D and and so I always ask my patients well have you had your vitamin D levels checked and they always say no and and they they always say my oncologist hasn't even brought it up uh my oncologist hasn't tested me for vitamin D that I find that bemusing I just can't explain why wouldn't you test for an important immuno modulator given and it's such an easy test it's it's not that it's a highly specialized test or an expensive test it's a simple test U and I think it's it's crucial and so I suggest you know high doses of Vitamin D uh supplementation at least 10,000 uh units a day if someone's low for sure yeah exactly and and and and and to have their levels checked and I said look if your oncologist is not willing to do it get your family doctor uh to check your vitamin D levels but very very important for the immune system well it it wouldn't work in the UK because GPS have been told not to test for vitamin D unless someone's got rickets wow which again is quite inexplicable um yeah but but things like zinc vitamin C you know good nutritions clearly vitally in addition to to to to

Summary: but we do want to go on and talk about novel approaches to treatment uh to treating cancers and particularly I want to talk about repurpose drugs drugs with a known safety profile very often very safe um drugs that have been used for decades drugs that have been used on without exaggeration in the case of IC in billions of people um drugs which are very cheap drugs which can be manufactured literally by the ton relatively cheaply because they're often fair…


Dr Kathleen Ruddy On Ivermectin use. FULL INTERVIEW
YouTube video by Dr. Kathleen Ruddy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bihNtDPzgyI). Transcript is the auto-caption track — verbatim ASR, not a certified transcript.

I was as astonished as anyone might be that ivormectin has potential as an anti-cancer agent. I began to be aware there was 20 years of research showing that Ivormectin had great potential in the treatment of cancer. >> In this episode, I sit down with cancer surgeon turned researcher Dr. Kathleen Ruddy who has been studying how repurposed drugs like Ivormectin may impact cancer survival rates. a guy in his 70s who had been losing weight for a year and a half, 40 lbs, not vaccinated, and um he could no longer swallow and he could hardly talk. >> The patient started taking Ivormectin and within a few weeks he started to feel a lot better. >> We got the scan, no tumors, gone, gone. >> This is American thought leaders and I'm Yana Kell. Dr. Kathleen Ready. Such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders. >> Thank you for having me. >> You are deeply involved with the FLCCCC and working on Ivormectin of all things as a possible treatment for cancer. And this is kind of, you know, might be astonishing to some people, right? I mean, I of course, you know, very famous drug for river blindness, probably saved millions of lives. We know it's effective for treating COVID 19 in early stage especially. Um there's been a lot of studies done around but but cancer I mean as our UFLCCCC people all just obsessed with ivormectin that's the question right >> I'll have to say that I was as astonished as anyone might be that ivormectin has potential as an anti-cancer agent I'm a cancer surgeon we don't do parasites okay we don't do ivormectin um and I was not really even familiar with those people who use ivormectin um And so when in the early days of COVID when it became clear that Ivormectin was effective in preventing and treating patients with a SARS KB2 infection um I began to be aware having looked in the literature that there was 20 years of research showing that Ivormectin had great potential in the treatment of cancer and I was like well I don't understand anything. Okay, why would an antiparasitic medication be effective against a virus? They're two completely different, not even organisms. They are so far apart from each other on the evolutionary tree that I could not understand why a medication that would be effective in killing a virus and a parasite then show some efficacy in killing cancer cells. So I went back to the beginning. I think whenever you've got a big question, some confusing information, go back to the beginning and see if you can understand the vocabulary and the basic science. And so the basic science begins historically with uh Satoshi Mura digging in the dirt near a golf course in Japan. Everybody knows that story. It's on Wikipedia. Okay. The question that I asked was why was he digging in the dirt? Why would you look in the dirt for an antibiotic? It it didn't make sense to me. So I I explored that and learned that if you were looking for antibiotics, you would look in the dirt, you would look in sewage, you would dig up, you know, the ground. Why? Why? Well, because single cell organisms, um, bacteria, uh, fungi, uh, mold, yeast, they make antibiotics. So, antibiotics, anti- life, described decades ago as bioweapons. The researchers who were studying antibiotics referred to them as anti-life bioweapons. Again, the question is why would a single cell organism, you would think it's got a lot of things it needs to do. Why would it synthesize this molecule ivormectin or meendazol or whatever? Because single cell organisms do not have an immune system. Multisellular organisms can diversify and they can assign immune defense, defend the organism from attack uh in a very marvelously intricate way. And they do that. Single cell organisms, it's they're on their own. And so what they've done evolved over hundreds of millions of years to synthesize these molecules, these bioweapons that they then secrete into the environment that act as sort of the Swiss army knife. That's the immune system. It's that molecule. So, it has to do as many things as possible in order to preserve the organism >> from predators and to give that organism an advantage when competing in the environment for resources. So, you're competing with your neighbors, you may be competing with your relatives, right? But really, you want not to be eaten or poisoned. And so over a period of hundreds of millions of years we can assume streptoyces synthesizes ivormectin and ivormectin goes out there and that's the immune system into the environment around the organism and it can kill parasites and it can dismantle viruses and because I believe there is substantial information scientific evidence of tumor viruses we know that 15 to 20% of cancers are caused by tumor viruses. It is my belief and I'm not alone in this that the majority of cancers are caused by tumor viruses yet to be discovered. And so it makes sense to me once I understood that it made sense to me why Ivormectin would be effective against parasites and everybody knows that for 50 years, win the Nobel Prize, fine. Basically eradicate river blindness almost entirely and dismantle viruses because viruses that get inside bacteria are called phasages, right? And they disrupt the genome. You want to get rid of those guys too. And if in fact there is a close relationship between viruses and cancer, I think there is, then that gets a cancer too. This very wonderful one molecule 3-inch thick Swiss army knife, that's the immune system. And I think when people understand that they're better able to um accept that if this single-c cellled organism can do this with one molecule >> that perhaps knowing that it's safe and effective against parasites and safe and effective against SARS KV2 and a host of other viruses and in the laboratory in vitro and vivo studies 20 years of research at least effective against uh cancer cells. Well, okay. Then the question is why don't we pose the question, do these medications, irrectend, all the rest of them, do they improve the survival of patients with cancer? You can see it. They kill cancer cells, human cancer cells in the lab, in animals. Fine. Are they effective in improving the survival of patients with cancer? Simple question. And that brings us to the agenda for today. It does indeed. It does indeed. Um I can see you've done a few lectures uh uh you know and and and I I would say well I would have enjoyed uh you know basically learning learning from you as a as a resident or something. >> So I wanted to take a quick break to tell you about something that's actually quite important to me. I've been kind of resisting uh getting a sponsor for the show for some time. There's been numerous offers. Let's just say Patriot Gold Group came to me and the gold is actually something that I've been thinking about quite a bit because we're in very volatile times, very unpredictable times. So, gold is the place that that I think is a one of the few kind of stable places to put money. Uh, and Patriot Gold Group is a good company. me check them out. And so I bought some gold with them. And you know, the value, and this is kind of crazy, uh, since I bought it, I think about 3 weeks ago, of this gold has gone up by over $500. And this isn't a large amount of gold that I bought here. So, let me show you what I got. So, this is Rand Refinery 1 fine gold bullion, the American Eagle, and five silver eagles. So, I'm going to I'm actually going to pull out the gold eagle for you because it looks kind of awesome. Wow. It's got an amazing weight to it. So, if you're inspired to buy some gold, I recommend you call Patriot Gold Group. You can Mention American thought leaders. With that, let's head back to the interview. you have a number of uh cases where Ivormectin corresponded with a kind of somewhat dramatic reduction of cancer in in a patient. >> So tell me about these. >> Well, okay. So the opening act in this story is that I began to do the scientific research, peer-reviewed papers, read them chronologically so you can understand what everyone is thinking. as they make their discoveries and what they're thinking and the questions they ask and so on and so forth. And here was, you know, all this research that Ivormectin showed great potential as an anti-cancer agent. Having seen for myself and being very well persuaded by the work of doctors Corey and Merik and others, the data coming out of South Africa and India that Ivormectin was safe and effective in treating patients with COVID. I began to wonder to what extent might this be effective in treating patients with cancer. Well, I understood that the pharmaceutical industries were not going to invest in a 10-centent per pill. And if the pharmaceutical industries were not willing to do that, no one was going to do it as pharma funds everybody else that's doing research, right? Um I was introduced to a patient with stage 4 prostate cancer. Had received two vaccines, perfectly healthy marathoner, no history of cancer in the family. Two months after his uh second Fiser shot, he works for the government, was going to lose his job and his pension if he wasn't vaccinated. um he was diagnosed all at once with stage four prostate cancer. He tells a very compelling story, melodramatic story about that 24-hour period of time in his life. Um and he went through the traditional protocols, radiation, chemotherapy, radiation, chemotherapy, pharmacologic, castration, all of it over a period of 9 months. And then his doctor said, you know, there's really nothing else we can do. And uh his name is Paul Man, and he was like, can't you give me more radiation? No. Can't you give me more chemo? No. Aren't there any other drugs? No. Are there any clinical trials? There's nothing. Hospice. Send for the priest. So, a friend of his knew me and she said, "Uh, would you give Paul a call? He just needs some moral support, something." So, I said, "Sure." So, I began calling him. We spoke about once a week for 3 weeks. And finally, um, the poor guy was suffering. He had cancer and 11 bones in his body. His right leg was completely swollen, obstructed with tumor. He's miserable. And I said, "Paul, I don't know if this is going to help you, but I know it's not going to hurt you. I just can't imagine based on my judgment and understanding of the scientific literature and all the work that Drs. Corey and Merrick had done and others around the world that I would hurt you. it might help. I can't say. So, he said, "You know, I'll give it a try." And uh he drove to Tennessee where you could get it without a prescription. PS. I discovered last night having dinner with Paul and his wife Terry, he drove from where he lives in Missouri to Tennessee and paid cash for his ivormectin. That's it. He didn't submit it to insurance company. He didn't tell anybody back in Missouri. He is on an encologist. Now his Ivormectin prescriptions are listed in his chart. How did that information get from the pharmacy in Tennessee to his chart in Missouri? We don't know. Somebody does. I'd like to know myself. Anyway, he starts taking ivormectin and he doesn't have any problems with it. And I talk to him every week. And um how are you feeling? Well, no change. Next week. Uh maybe a little bit better. I don't know. How's your leg? It's not quite as swollen. How How's the pain? Pain everywhere. Maybe a little bit better. Slowly slowly. Slowly. Not getting worse. Not necessarily getting better. Not getting worse. Fast forward. Um two-month follow-up appointment at the clinic. They didn't expect to see him. Okay. Paul, um, he's feeling a little bit better. They do a PSA, which was off the charts to begin with. And if I'm not mistaken, at the time they randomized him to hospice. I think it was in the hundreds, maybe 700, 800. >> What does that mean exactly for the lay person? >> Over four would be abnormal. >> Mhm. >> Okay. So, what are we talking about here? Prostate cells normally secrete a protein prostate specific antigen. It's >> one of the things that they do. Cancer cells that originate in the prostate that are dividing rapidly and growing fast are spitting out PSA. >> Mhm. >> Okay. It's not that they're contributing to the body economy in any way. It's just they just want to multiply and divide and that's the end of the story. And so your PSA levels start to rise, which is a marker, a screening marker. Oh, your PSA was four and now it's eight. Let's do a prostate ultrasound, whatever. So PSA can be a screen for the emergence of a tumor, but it can also be used particularly at high levels as evidence for cancer, response to cancer, recurrence of cancer. His was I mean it's supposed to be, you know, four, you know. Yeah, it's hundreds. Okay. He goes back for his two-month appointment. It's 1.3. They said, "You're in remission." Well, not, you know, complete remission. He still had the bone mets, but you're in like a biochemical remission. Well, that was good news. Slowly, slowly, slowly, he begins to improve. Less pain. Swelling is okay. A lot of other vaccine injuries. However, he's getting better. He's getting better. We're giving him uh nutritional support and other supplements. He's having TAS, little mini strokes, >> but he didn't tell me about that because we were talking about the cancer. But over a period of time, I'm asking him questions and I said, "Oh, you're having TAS." His wife said, "Yeah, having TAS." I said, "What do the cancer doctors tell you?" Because that's who he's seeing. They say, "It's not related to my cancer." Like, so I get a call from his wife one evening. He's in the emergency room. he's had this TIA is whatever it is catastrophic. And um I said, "Paul, what are they doing for you?" And he said, "Well, they did a CAT scan of my head and they said they don't see anything specific. It's a TIA and it's not related to my cancer. They send them home." I said, "Did they do anything?" "No." I said, "Well, okay. Call me crazy. I'm a cancer surgeon, but I think you need to see a cardiologist. I think there are things they can do." Okay. And of course I look it up really quickly and and of course there are things. So get him to the cardiologist, get him on blood thinners, no more problems with TAS. >> Okay. That's an indictment of the healthare system. >> So he's getting better about nine months later. Um he's out dancing for 4 hours three nights a week. He gets a headto toe uh rescanning and uh three of the bone mets are gone. there. No growth of the METs that are there, no new lesions, there's only one hot spot and that's where he received radiation therapy and the radiation um the radiologist really could not distinguish whether that was a tumor hotspot or radiation change. >> Um he is doing very well. the vaccine injury is uh a problem, but the cancer is no longer a problem except for the fact that it's still there and we want to get rid of it completely. Um and he and he said he called me from a hockey game and he said uh if I didn't know I have cancer, I would not know I have cancer. That was patient number one. I was like that's interesting. A second patient crossed my path. a guy in his 70s who had been losing weight for a year and a half, 40 pounds, not vaccinated, 40 pound weight loss, smoker, drinker, all he does is fish. And um he could no longer swallow and he could hardly talk. And so I got on the phone with him and I said, "Uh, Eddie, you know, tell me a little bit about your history and so forth." He knew someone with prostate cancer who had taken ivormectin. He cured himself from prostate cancer with that. So Eddie began taking Ivormectin. I have no idea what the dosing was. He was just taking it. And I gave him some advice about diet, you know, try and get the weight back on and so on and so forth. Within a couple of weeks, he sounded stronger. >> Mhm. >> Sounded stronger. He could swallow. He had gained six pounds. His his voice was better. followed him for the next couple of weeks, maybe another month or so, and I said, "Eddie, we need to get a scan. He doesn't have insurance. He doesn't like doctors, whatever." He had been diagnosed in that interval with two esophageal tumors, unresectable. Surgeons wouldn't go near it. The uh doctor said, "Well, we'll give you chemo and radiation." And then he said, "No, you're not." So, he takes his ivormectin. Maybe about six weeks later, I said, "Eddie, you need to get a scan." Had to argue with Eddie to get a scan. We got the scan. No tumors. Gone. Gone. The problem was that he had sold his fishing boat. That was the biggest problem. He was getting better. His tumor was gone. Now we need to grab by another fishing boat. That was the second patient. I was like, "Well, now that's interesting." Third patient was a woman who was referred to me. Her husband called me. He said, "Could you talk to my wife? I think she's got a problem." She could feel a lump in her lower pelvis. And uh she'd had that for a while. I said, "Do you have any vaginal bleeding?" Yes, a little bit, but not much. She was in her 60s and I said, um, I think the best thing to do would be to go to the doctor and get a CAT scan. She doesn't like doctors. She doesn't have insurance. She's not getting a CAT scan. I was able to convince her to get at least an ultrasound. She gets an ultrasound. She has a 6 cm tumor in her pelvis. It's close to the colon. It's close to the ovary. It might be near the uterus. Who knows? It's just wedged down there. And I said, 'You know, it would be very helpful if you would at least be willing to do a needle biopsy because if it's cancer, it's going to make a difference in terms of what your choices are. Nope, she's not going to do that. So, I called her periodically over the next couple of months and I'm fine. No problem, whatever. And I said, "Well, call me if you need me, you know." So, this was I think like April, May. Um, and I get a call December 23rd from her husband. 9:30 at night. Her belly is distended. She can't eat. Uh, she's not passing gas. She's not passing stool. Her her abdomen hurts. And I said, "Press down on her belly. Does that hurt?" Yeah. Press when he presses. Yeah, it hurts. I said, "Now press and lift up really quickly." Like flick the belly. Does that hurt? Yeah, that's worse. I said, "Get her to the emergency room. We don't have insurance. We don't like doctors. We're in West Virginia. We hate the We hate the hospitals." I said, "Look, she's going to blow out her bowel and then you're going to take her to the emergency room and she's going to die. I suggest you go now." Okay. take her to the emergency room. They do a CAT scan. 18 cm tumor. >> Who knows what it's wrapped around 18 centimeter tumor. They give her introvenous. Uh and I said, "Let me talk to the ER doc." I said, "Is she stable enough? Can you rehydrate her? She's stable enough to go to Charlottesville because I have family. I know people in Charlottesville. UVA is a great hospital. Let's see if we can get her to Charlottesville." Yes. So, the ER doctor, I can imagine, was very happy to get her on the way to UVA and they admit her Christmas Eve and um they hydrate her and they give her nutrition and the surgical oncology um head of of of the surgical oncology team comes in to see her. Brilliant surgeon, brilliant surgeon, a Persian. and he said, "I'm not sure that I can reect this, but let's tune you up and let's see what we can do. If I can, I will." So, she gets all tuned up, ready to go. Um, the hospital would not give her unvaccinated blood. So, there was a big Shakespearean melodrama the night before surgery, but she said, "I've got to have the surgery." So, okay, she did not require blood transfusion. Thank God. So the surgical oncologist is brilliant seal team six surgeon goes in with a vascular team a gyn team the urologic team because it's wrapped around the urer and who knows what's going on with the uterus and the surgical team so forth they all go in and seven and a half hours later they close they have negative margins they got the whole thing to negative margins she had met in her liver three mets in the liver and then postoperatively during her recovery um the metastic lesions in the liver multiplied which is not uncommon. She went home maybe five or six days later. Uneventful postoperative course. Again, you know, A+ to the surgical team at UVA. She gets in the car, she goes back to West Virginia. And of course, the medical oncology people at UVA insist she have chemo. They are breathing down. They're making appointments for her. There's not not a question. You know, we think you should have this pro, you know, here's your appointment. Here's your appointment. And she goes, yeah, I'm going back to West Virginia. she starts taking ivormectin and I think she was probably taking a little bit higher dose. I can't really say. Um I don't think it was skyh high but anyway Ivormectin as I said to you is safer than a sugar pill. You'd have to take a lot to make yourself sick. >> Whoa. Let's stop for a moment. >> Safer than tell me that again. >> Yeah. Yeah. This might be a bit of an exaggeration but not by much. Um, Ivormectin is so non-toxic that if you gave someone, you know, Ivormectin every day, if you did a randomized trial, these people are getting Ivormectin every day and these people are getting sugar pills every day. My prediction, test it, see what happens would be that the people who are getting the sugar pills would end up having more harm at least, you know, spikes in their insulin level than the people taking ivormectin. So that's why I say kind of flippantly, >> you know, it's safer than a sugar pill. Anyway, she starts taking Ivormectin and uh I said, "Uh, we need to do a scan." You know, uh, everybody gets sick of hearing me say we need to do a scan. Um, she didn't want that. How about an ultrasound? Because you can image the, uh, liver pretty well with an ultrasound. And he she had had an ultrasound so we could compare. Liver's clean. Nothing in the liver. She's fine. She's driving around with her husband. She's going down to the border. She's pushing back against the aliens, whatever. She's just she's doing very very well. So that was the third patient and I thought I cannot just wait for patient four through N as I describe it to see if Ivormect really is effective. Something has to be done. I feel compelled to do something. What is that going to be? What am I going to do? And I had to think hard because I didn't have the money to fund a study which would on average cost $6 million for phase one study of a repurposed medication. What could I do? What could I do? And then after a good hard think, I thought, well, an observational study like the Framingham study where you identify a population, in the Framingham study, it was the people who lived in Framingham. But in this observational study, it would be patients with cancer who themselves decided either in addition or instead of or whatever, they decided they were going to use ivormectin and other repurposed medications as part of their cancer care. And I as principal investigator being just the neutral woman with a chart collecting data this observational data prospectively I would be recording the data and that would allow me to see over a period of time whether there was a survival advantage in patients with cancer who were taking ivormectin and other repurposed medications compared to historical controls. And we have decades of historical controls. As an example, what is the likelihood that someone with a stage 4 prostate cancer sent to hospice would have over a period of 9 months a remission and a clinical improvement as Paul experienced? Well, as I say, it's not zero probability, but it approaches zero. What is the likelihood that a patient with stage four cancer, a patient with stage three unresectable esophageal cancer, a patient with an 18 centimeter Kukenberg tumor in her pelvis would all have such remarkable results that you might attribute to ivormectin seeming to be the common denominator. One, two, three. What is the likelihood of that happening? Like winning the lottery the first three tickets you buy that approaches zero. the probability approach to zero. Nonetheless, that's not how we do science. We don't do science by saying, you know, it's really odd that these three people had this experience. You create the hypothesis, you create the question, you design a study in such a way that you can answer the question and validate it and make sure that the data that you collect are neutral, verifiable. You can audit the data. Someone else who's not involved in the study is responsible. The biostistician for evaluating the data. Now you have the data. You've accumulated that over a period of time. You turn that over for peer review. You go through all of that and then you publish. So I began wonderful opportunity to speak to Dr. Merrick about this. He was very interested and as God would have it um he thought there was great wisdom in having a multi-enter observational study as I've described where you have multiple co-principal investigators with the clipboard with the data element list that we have compiled with an independent biostatistician all moving forward forward to collect the data with Dr. Merrick who you can't find someone with better credentials. Okay, I believe that he's God teed him up to do this. He probably didn't expect he was going to be doing this, but I think that God teed him up to do this. And so he'll be the the principal investigator on this large multic-enter observational study. We'll collect the data and if we see a signal that is if we observe and the biostistician validates and peers concur that the patients who are taking these repurposed medications like Ivormectin especially now that we know how Ivormectin works when it's working in the dirt um then we will be able to launch additional questions and additional studies and continue to move this ball downfield. And so I just want to clarify one thing. You said, do I understand correctly that you tried Ivormectin three times only >> for cancer and these were the three results. >> Well, I didn't try it. Okay, so we had to be clear. >> I didn't try it. The I discussed with the patient. I said, you know, think about this. Here are the studies. >> Refer the patients. Talk to them. They and then they decide. I American is approved by the FDA and thank you the fifth district, right? And uh the incompetent attorney for the Department of Justice defending the FDA who wasn't able to argue that physicians and providers cannot prescribe ivormectin or other FDA approved medications based on their judgment. Patients can get it across the counter in Tennessee. Patients chose to do this. I was there calling, finding out how you're doing and learning your cancer's gone. It's just not there. >> The three cases you're aware of where this was done. >> Yeah. >> That you know people were you know calling you about >> Yeah. >> All of them cleared up. That is an unexpected result that would warrant a study of the nature. >> Yeah. >> That you're describing. >> I think so. >> Yeah. >> I think so. So, yeah. No. And so, how many are is there a patient number right now across all these different centers? Um, >> oh, it's just officially been launched. >> Okay. >> Um, it I am asked a lot, you know, the past couple of days, you know, what are your data? I'm like principal investigators do not discuss the data until they have the data >> and then they don't discuss the data until it's been validated by a bioatistician and peer-reviewed. No principal investigator would jump in early on and say, "Oh, we have 100 patients and we're No, that's not how studies are done." Now, there is an imperative to do this as quickly as possible, but not recklessly. Fortunately, patients that we're seeing today, particularly those with advanced cancer, don't have long to live. So, we don't have to do a 20-year study as you should if you were evaluating a vaccine, all right, or a new drug. We don't have to wait five years to see the separation in curves. If there is a separation based on these repurposed medications, we're not going to have to wait 5 years to see that. We'll conduct the study for at least 5 years. I would imagine it's going to be open-ended. Why not do what Framingham did? Framingham didn't shut the study down. Framingham has been going at it for decades, >> right? >> Why not keep the studies open and see how far downfield you can get with that. >> Well, you'll and you'll quickly see, you know, what how many out of the people that are around are making it basically because of that. That's um incredible. I wish you luck with this. Well, you know, science is the uncertain pursuit of the unknown. And I'm not sure it's uh it's luck so much as it is paying attention, right? You pay attention, you discern, you use your judgment. You use your judgment. There a medical student asked the question uh in the forum yesterday uh uh based on uh William Osler's statement to the medical students at Johns Hopkins. Half of what we teach you is wrong. We don't know which half it is. And the medical students said, "Well, how am I supposed to figure this out?" You use your judgment. That's what you really learn as a professional. Use your judgment. Pay attention. Look at the data. Ask questions. Ask questions. Ask questions. Use your judgment. act. Do something. I mean, unless you're just going to be an ivory tower kind of person, use your judgment and then act. As the uh Africans say, when you pray, move your feet. Act. Okay. Three, prepare for trouble. No matter what it is, prepare for difficulties. FLCCC can tell you firsthand the difficulties. Marilyn Nash, I mean, people, we ran into trouble, right? And we're running into trouble now. Prepare for difficulties. Expect it. Defend yourself. Identify what the vulnerabilities are. Expect them. Preempt them to the extent that you can. You can't preempt everything. Don't be surprised when it happens. Don't give up. Okay? Don't give up. Paul Man has tattooed on the inner wrist. Don't give up. He wanted to remind himself, I'm dying of cancer. Don't give up. Okay. Don't give up. And finally, do your best. do your best. Those five principles. Yeah, luck. Sure, fine. We'll take luck. Just do those things. Um, and you'll be lucky enough. Let's put it that way. >> And, you know, in not too long, we'll have some, you know, preliminary results from this from these studies. I'll be very interested in knowing what they show. >> Me too. >> Um, >> me too. You know, and it's not on the other hand, you know, at the beginning I was saying, you know, there's this Ivormectin obsession here with this group. I'm kind of jo I'm kind of being glib, of course. >> Yeah. >> But, you know, >> Dr. Paul Merik has indeed, you know, looked into, you know, hundreds of different papers of methods of both prevention and treatment of cancer of things that we just simply weren't aware of or like we're not not in our frame of reference. Not in his frame of reference in most cases. >> Never mind mine, right? Yeah. Yeah. >> And and there's a lot of them. I mean, there's this astonishing uh study on vitamin D that that that we talked about in our interview. He said it was the one of the most significant findings he had he had found. I mean, who knew, right, that vitamin D can help with a few other things and, you know, very rigorous >> Yeah. >> evidence for that, right? And but there's so many there's actually so many things that don't involve or could work in addition to things like, you know, radiation or a chemo and and so forth. So why why not Ivormectin, you know, right? I guess that that's also the the question. >> Yeah. Well, let's see ivormectin. Let's seeendol, metformin, sedanaphil, vitamin D3 at higher doses, curcum, all there's a whole list. Are you are you are you working on those as well? >> I allow the patients to make their decisions. My job as I see it is to provide to answer all questions that occur to them and they're pretty well informed which is a blessing. Um and to give them the information that I have that I think they would find useful. There are issues I believe potential issues uh with the use of ivormectin in patients with a brain tumor. It's a bit uh of a challenge and we've got to discuss that with a patient. So they might say well I don't know if I'm interested in using I've got a brain tumor and from what you're telling me that I might not be the best choice. There is something else that would be perhaps a better choice. Meendazol. So the patients are making the choice. My job is to give them the information that they need to help them make that choice. But they decide. They decide. It's up to >> So that reminds me of something that sometimes gets lost recently is something called informed consent. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> That's what informed consent is. I'll tell you what I know. Um and I I encourage patients to do this. um a desperately ill, wonderful man, desperately ill with a brain tumor and um there was nothing else he could do, radiation, chemo, there's nothing else he could do. Um and he was, you know, losing the fight by the day. And uh but there was a protocol. His medical oncologist said, "You have to do this. You have to do this." And I said, "Ask the medical oncologist why you have to do this. Ask the medical oncologist, does he have any information about the potential for this to be beneficial? Is there anything in the literature anywhere? And if there is any information, could he share that information? Oh, we 40% of the patients dropped out of the trial and 2% of the patients had a catastrophic side effect and nobody lived longer, but you have to do this trial. You have to sign. And so the patient goes to this is the conversation and uh the patient's like you can't tell me if there's any benefit of the trial. Uh you're not free to tell me what any of the preliminary complications might be. I'm signing this consent and you got two pages of complications here, but you're not discussing that with me, but you're telling me that I have to do this. This is my only choice. And the patient said, "No, thank you." So yeah, thorough informed consent. >> Well, and you know, when it comes to all of these existing standard therapies, there is all of them have, you know, they they don't work 100%. You have to there's a there's a risk benefit, right, in any one of these scenarios that that and this is, you know, this is one of the things I hadn't really thought about that much until co, right? and understanding that that's always the calculation you have to make with any disease, any treatment for that disease and the side effects and and so forth. There's kind of that's that's why every doctor needs to look at each patient individually. >> Yeah. >> And and ask the question how how valuable is this for you and what are the possible costs? Then you'll and in the end you can you can choose if this is right. >> Right. >> Right. And some patients may say, you know, enroll me in the study. If it kills me, maybe I add some beneficial information. >> Fine. There'll be some patients who will say, I've had enough. Okay, I'm done. Okay, I'm dying. If you can't tell me that, I'll tell you, I'm dying. I'm going to go home. Make me comfortable at home, please. Patient choice. And I can just, you know, imagine there's some cases where people are, you know, where the doctor will say, well, frankly, this seems to be the only reasonable, it has its risks, but it's the only thing I see helping. Yeah. Right. And that that's reasonable, too. Right. >> Sure. Yeah. Sure. Right. Yeah. >> You were also talking about um these uh breast cancer viruses, >> right? And so, so what do we know about that right now? What's this? What's the state of knowledge? We know that a breast cancer virus exists in mice. No one has any question about that. The animal models that are used to study drugs and interventions uh that might translate into use in women with breast cancer are all based on these mice that get breast cancer and they get breast cancer because of the breast cancer virus which was discovered by John Bitner in 1936. That virus has been found in other animals. That virus has been found in rats, cats, dogs, monkeys, and that virus has been found in humans. Uh Dr. Dr. James Holland who since passed away um a highly respected venerated researcher professor of medical ancology and verology at Mount Si Beatatric Pogo a professor of verology at Mount Si found this virus in human breast cancer. Others have found it. There's decades of research, I mean a hundred years of research um on this breast cancer virus. In the runup to the uh passage of the National Cancer Act, there were hearings in the Senate. And at that hearing, uh Dr. Holland talked about the breast cancer virus. That was 50 years ago. There were other researchers talking about tumor viruses. The one of the largest study sections at the NCI. So the NCI funds research based on study sections. This is a section we're going to study this. So, one of the largest study sections at the NCI for maybe 10, 20 years prior to the drafting of the National Cancer Act was tumor viruses, leukemia, lymphoma, SV40, the breast cancer virus. When the National Cancer Act was passed and it was declared >> as if written in stone that we would cure cancer in five years, this was pipe dream. The pipe dream of a woman who had a degree in art history who persuaded Nixon who needed a way out from a deteriorating public polling. He was having a bad rap in Vietnam. The war on cancer, how about that? We'll replace the war in Vietnam with a war on cancer. Everybody ought to love that. And we're going to cure cancer in five years. Great. We don't need to know what causes it. So all of the research on tumor viruses was completely deep sixed. That's the end of the story on the breast cancer virus. I was completely unaware of it. I had done my fellowship at morals cuttering. I had never heard of the breast cancer virus. So when I heard of the existence of one because Holland had uh published a paper and presented at the San Antonio breast uh meeting um 2006 December 2006 I was like what is a breast cancer virus? The story as I began to understand it was so intriguing. So I wrote a book about it and then tried to advance to reawaken Susan Chiccomman Foundation, Susan Love Foundation, American Cancers. Nobody's interested in the breast cancer virus. Why? Because we're treating it. We have mammogram screening and we're finding it early and we have arimidex and we have receptin. I'm like, you know, we discovered that HPV causes cervical cancer. You make a vaccine, a proper vaccine against that. you need to make a proper vaccine against that, one that's safe. If you take the virus out of the equation, you don't get cervical cancer. Jean Bitner showed that with the breast cancer virus. So, the research on the breast cancer virus has inched forward against enormous opposition in the past 20 years. But perhaps one of the great blessings of this global catastrophe will be a better understanding of ivormectin and repurpose medications and how and why they work. And given the fact that I've been asked to share my thoughts about this from time to time, I get a chance to talk about the breast cancer virus and see if we can't reawaken some interest in this because if it's true that a virus causes breast cancer in women, we need to know about that and we need to do something about that. and another monoconal antibbody is not what I'm talking about. >> I mean absolutely fascinating and you know a book a book another book to for my for my reading. >> So how many other molecules are have been identified that are these you know immune systems in a molecule as you would describe it? Well, I think all of the antibiotics are nature's bioweapons. Dare we even use that term, which is why something like doxycycline is part of a protocol? Uh, right. Um, Advasten, you know, a statin. Um, I think that Dr. Merrick has identified 10 13 uh various natural compounds. green tea extract, right? Tea, green tea leaves in nature. Nature paths will tell you all about this. How many are there? I have no idea. Um, I know that uh Dr. Merrick has identified uh a list. My view is that there's justification for the items on his list. And if we begin to take this seriously and move forward seriously, we can begin to look at other naturally more naturally occurring. >> I mean, is this almost like a kind of new subbranch of medicine or something that we're launching here? >> No, I think it's a renovation of an old branch of medicine called >> cancer oncology. Okay. >> Every now and again you have to renovate, right? Have you ever renovated a kitchen? you could take the house down to the foundation. Um I don't think we need to burn the house down. I think there's so many smart people, so many good people. Um I mean really brilliant, wonderful people that have contributed to this vast body of knowledge. I think we have to renovate. I think we got a leaky roof and the windows aren't quite right. The floor is slow. Big job ahead of us. >> Um I think we can renovate and I think that a renovation of cancer I'll probably take a lot of heat, but prepare for trouble, right? Item number three on the list, prepare for trouble. I think that it's possible that the principles of medical oncology based on chemotherapy, cytotoxic chemotherapy, will give way to a new approach where it's not targeted because targeted therapy is not targeted to the tumor. Her septin targets cancer cells that express her too new but also targets the heart. Okay. Targets other other organs truly um targeting the cancer and the metabolic pathways of cancer leaving the rest of you alone boosting the immune system. That's the renovation. And as I I said earlier today something of an exaggeration but maybe this will be what happens. uh you replace um things like the iron lung for polio, >> right? Um and you replace face masks. You replace cytotoxic chemotherapy with other interventions that are not toxic, but that get the job done. >> Well, Dr. Kathleen Ready, it's such a pleasure to have had you on. >> Thank you very much. Thank you all for joining Dr. Kathleen Ruddy and me on this episode of American Thought

Summary: I was as astonished as anyone might be that ivormectin has potential as an anti-cancer agent. I began to be aware there was 20 years of research showing that Ivormectin had great potential in the treatment of cancer. >> In this episode, I sit down with cancer surgeon turned researcher Dr. Kathleen Ruddy who has been studying how repurposed drugs like Ivormectin may impact cancer survival rates. a guy in his 70s who had been losing weight for a year and a h…