Interview with Dr. Robert Malone - Vaccines and Virology (Grant Cardone)
YouTube video by Dr. Robert Malone (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DoJD3M4910). Transcript is the auto-caption track — verbatim ASR, not a certified transcript.

[Music] hey welcome to the Cardone Zone Grant Cardone here and today I'm going to be interviewing Dr Robert Malone uh Robert's American biologist and immunologist I think this is a very very important subject matter this is not political for me this is uh many of you have heard me say I'm hiring people that aren't vaccinated uh I think it's I think it's it's uh many people nurses teachers firemen policemen military people are being required Bankers uh fund managers in New York are being required uh threatened with their jobs and their income and their livelihoods uh and being forced to vaccinate uh in order to keep their jobs and many of you have heard me be very very um opinionated about that with a small company here we have seven or eight companies here and and um about 500 employees here in the United States another 300 outside and I'm telling people we want to get bigger we want to grow and you're not required to get the vaccine to work at my offices I will never mandate or require somebody to get vaccinated to work here I appreciate the fact that you do hard work here you do a great job and that uh and and your freedoms I appreciate your freedoms as much as anything else so I'm bringing on Dr Robert Malone he's an American biologist uh and immunologist really smart guy I'm not that smart guy I'm not the scientist he is he's worked on and focused his career on on these type of Technologies particularly the MRNA technology on the Pharmaceuticals and Drug repurposing research uh he's been very very vocal about the covid-19 pandemic and the vaccine and Dr Malone I really appreciate you being with us today well thank you grant uh and uh thanks for the opportunity to talk to your audience how can I help you yeah so so I'm interested like like first of all let's talk about you like what is your career so the audience can know what you know about this as a legitimate source to give an opinion and opinion well let's see we can take the next hour to do that or we can take the next two minutes uh let's start with the two-minute version um I'm a physician and I'm I'm licensed in the state of Maryland I'm a physician and scientist I was trained at at a a bunch of universities and I was an academic for a little over a decade uh um I have a medical degree from Northwestern fineberg uh School of Medicine in Chicago I completed a fellowship in uh International clinical research uh including uh Regulatory Affairs and bioethics Etc at Harvard uh Medical School uh I completed a fellowship in pathology at UC Davis I received my master's degree in Lou PhD at uh at UC San Diego from my work at the sulk Institute uh um uh Laboratories of uh molecular virology under inderma uh during that time uh this is 1987 to 89 when I was you know in my late 20s uh I had a series of invention discover iies that gave rise to uh what we now are seeing as the RNA vaccines the whole idea of genetic vaccination as an application for gene therapy came out of my head at that time uh it's a it's a kind of a interesting story but it's been recorded on I don't know how many podcasts so far so we don't need to go there uh and um since that time I've I've been involved vaccines yeah pardon are you the inventor see people you MRNA so mRNA is actually a molecule I didn't invent that some would say God did or or others might say uh um history you know time did but uh whichever side of that fence you're on um that's that's a biologic molecule the application of mRNA and the technology to enable it for use as a drug so this is this is kind of sweep in now the pharmaceutical industry it took 30 years and that's another story as to why it took so long but um the idea and the technology for using RNA as a drug uh including the application of using it for vaccine purposes all came off of my bench and out of my head in that period between 87 and 89 and there's a series of I don't know how many patents now at least uh nine I think domestic and then all the international ones but since then I've done you know many other things I have a fundamental patent issued in mucosal polynucleotide vaccines it covers any of the vectors I've uh developed uh ketonic lipids the form the basic compounds those are marketed by companies like prega multiple patents associated with that I was seminal in bringing forward the uh public health agency Canada vaccine uh candidate for Ebola in getting a a little tiny vaccine called Merc involved in buying that um so uh um you know that the fact that we've got an Ebola vaccine now has a lot to do with my intervention and uh and I've been involved in biod defense uh and as you mentioned drug repurposing we have uh I'm currently supporting uh a little company in India called Reliance since you're an industri may have heard of Reliance it's the largest conglomerate in India uh run by by a guy named um Bonnie who's I think the sixth wealthiest person in the world we've got a new vaccine candidate that I just uh disclosed earlier this week for the first time in public those trials are about to start and then I've got three clinical trials about to start on the repurpose drug combination we've discovered during this outbreak which is high do fodi and celic oxid two of those are funded by the Department of Defense one is funded by Reliance in India okay so you have you have I just wanted I just wanted establish some credibility because I know there's people in your space that have tried to damage uh your credibility as a doctor and a virologist you've been in this space for many many years so so let me ask you use and I'm not I'm not an antivaxer I absolutely provax but I'm absolutely insistent that vaccines need to be developed safely and uh they have to have good efficacy and and safety and Purity yeah so what is bioethics I I've heard you talk about it in other interviews and you use that word today what is exactly and I just want to like uh dumb down everything for a guy like me I suspect grant that you're not so dumb uh you you remind me of you're the kind of guy that I run into here in the South that that goes a Shucks and whenever I hear that I know I got to be careful um so uh uh in terms of bioethics this is a a a discipline largely an academic discipline that has to do with right and wrong in the area of biomedic research in particular and uh it guides Physicians and clinical research and you could say modern Baro ethics really starts with the nurg trials where we decided in the west that uh the rights of the individual are more important than the rights of the collective in terms of accepting medical product are experiencing medical research uh so it's a whole discipline and it's actually encoded in federal law as what we call the common rule so we can go down that rabbit hole if you want in terms of what the issues are and how they relate to this yeah so so ba basically bioethics would suggest that in business I'm doing the ethical thing I'm doing the research to make sure that the product that I'm selling doesn't harm or hurt people and it is that fair to say simply that's a starting point but when you're dealing with medical practice and and patients in people's personal Integrity it gets a little deeper than that okay um just to give you the the quick snapshot what happened in World War II with the Germans was they thought it was okay and it was justified because their troops were facing these conditions as they were on these uh line fighting the Soviets and up North with the fins and in the Netherlands Etc that they were having problems with the cold and so they thought it was okay to take prisoners and others and subject them to research to try to develop ways to protect the soldiers and so they force people that you know without their consent to do all kinds of atrocious stuff and uh I think we've all generally agreed that that the rights of the individual um to to controlling Integrity of their own body and what gets done to it outweighs the rights of the collective and that's we we determin that in the nberg trials and uh you know not to be too blunt or ugly but people ended up getting hung over that and so how does that conversation relate to what's going on right now in in your mind so there's there's a bunch of bunch of fundamentals in this space that we've all agreed upon and it goes through nberg trial um Helsinki Accords the Belmont report in the United States that was partially in response to the Tuskegee experiments Etc and what it comes down to is three you know there's a lot of nuances but there's three essential things number one there has to be full and complete disclosure of risks number two and we all know that if you go to surgery if you go to get your um bow run you know For Heaven's Sake the surgeon comes or the or the GI dot comes and gives you this whole talk about uh what the risks are and you have to accept those risks right so first thing is and they can't they can't hide it with fancy medical speak okay so you understand that and your audience does too the first rule is full and complete disclosure of risks second rule is those risks have to be described in a way that you can all understand them not not with fancy medical language that hides what they mean and the third most important thing is you have to have full free consent to the procedure um that means no coercion no enticement no free ice cream no shotgun uh um you know uh lottery cards and no government demanding that you have to accept a product this is this is just so so deeply wrong and we've all been you know it's like all the rules have been thrown out right out the window I I if forgive my I don't I really don't like to rant but I am starting to get a little bit aggravated as many others are and as I heard in your prologue you're cold open that you're getting a little aggravated about it too um the government doesn't own our body and they don't have the right to force stuff on us and uh for some reason you know I don't want to I don't want to get political here but for some reason this Administration is basically gone outside the law the FDA is no longer accountable to the law the CDC is no longer accountable to the law and I don't know how else to say it I can't make it pretty so so let me ask you this because every every time I talk to somebody a doctor they cite the CDC they cite the FDA my question to you is has the FDA or the CDC in your uh long experience or abundantly um uh I if you want a if you want a super case study uh look at what happened with HIV but I've been through too many of these outbreaks and and I've seen the same the thing that really upsets me frankly um among like I'm starting to get to the point where I'm upset about a lot of things I'm sorry to say I don't like this being this way but the same mistakes get made again and again and again we don't seem to learn and uh so then that that causes a lot of people to say well what's going on what's behind this and then I call it conspiracy Legos you know folks bring out all of these other theories and uh you're in the financial industry so you understand um the the various statements that are made about the great reset and World economic forum and all that but there's there's a lot of other ways that things are going sideways we we clearly the CDC like the USDA suffers from having two mandates they are vaccine Advocates and vaccine Regulators the same problem basically exists with the FDA the Integrity of the FDA as an independent organization is gone I can give you examples you know personal examples citing them and demonstrating it but it's gone it is it is subject to Executive Branch dictat and uh I I can't you know it's it's now so overt that we can't ignore it same with the CDC I mean this latest decision by the director of the CDC to go against both the verb back and uh the acip that just came down yesterday evening is for me it's stunning it's never happened before they just care about rules yeah what was that so that I this is yeah get get ready for this one my friend because you run a company or a series of companies um so both the the vaccine related advisory committee for the FDA and uh the advisory committee on immunization practices for the CDC actually endorsed uh the third dose so this is the third jab booster because the fiser vaccine is petering out after about four to six months so they endorse this for the high-risk groups the elderly the morbidly obese imuno compromised and other high-risk groups they said go ahead and give the third jab even though we don't have enough data it makes sense enough and the pro the data with the failing vaccine is clear enough that for these people that are at very high risk we think it's okay to proceed but not for everybody else then what the FDA did was a sneaky end run they said well we're gonna approve it for that and by the way also basically for anybody who has any public contact okay so now we're in a position where the the FDA said well we're going to give it for anybody who has any public contact because they're at such high risk of severe death and disease there's actually no data to support that they they just pulled that out of a dark place okay and then the acip said we agree with the verb back um but the FDA went ahead did the sneak approved it for this other group then the The Advisory committees for immunization practices says no we don't we disagree with that it should not be given this broad um mandate for persons that are not at high risk but happen to have public contact this is First Responders Health Care Providers all the way down to the folks that sell you your groceries um and uh so the acip said no we disagree on that one uh we disagree with the director of the CDC who as you know is is headed out the door within a month um uh and then uh and then uh the director of the CDC over wam last night and said no we're going to go ahead with this so what that does is it opens the door to the federal government to mandate that virtually everybody that has any significant public contact in their business can be mandated which is what they wanted in the first place so how many people are excluded from that huh um pretty much everybody uh you know School teachers everybody else is going to have to get the third jab with the associated risks and you know as you know based on your statement I can tell these vaccines do not protect you from infection replication and shedding and infection of others here's here's the thing that's got a lot of let me ask let me ask you this before you go on does it reduce the amount of damage that covid-19 does to the individual because that's the big defense that I hear from everybody like if you take the vaccine it lessens the effect so the data to date have suggested that that's the case that they're still protective against death and disease not very protective against infection replication and spread those data are actually in flux so one of the problems is you'll understand as a financial guy what you're looking at is a moving average okay so you're looking at an aggregated outcome as the virus has transitioned from one that was more matched to the vaccine to one that's increasingly not matched to the vaccine because the virus is evolving to escape the vaccine and so as you'll you'll understand immediately with a moving average over time you're going to see that trending shift okay and that's exactly what we're in Israel so what we're seeing now with the latest reports is yeah they were saying that we're still in the 90% or high 80s for protection against death to disease that's now shifting down to the 70s um high 70s and it's continuing to slide so that's still a controversial area and we're looking forward to more data and there are those and I I'm among them who are concerned that there is some signal in here and again as a financial analyst you'll appreciate my attitude is we're always looking for leading indicators and black swans we're not we cannot rely just on data that's six to nine months old because we will always be behind the curve that's the that's the validated data but just like you in the financial industry in health care and public health my opinion is we got to be out on the edge looking at risks and mitigating risks so so what the Israeli data is telling us so far to my eye is there is a risk of Advan of vaccine enhanced disease that's still happening but it's complex the data are full of compounding variables um like for instance in Israel we have the populations of the fundamentalist Jews who are generally older that are very vaccine resistant and so you think about Israel as monomorphic you know they're all really compl they've all taken the jab actually that's not so true um so there's there's that confounding variable the other one that's really I was just about to mention that's worrying a lot of people is that the extent that the vax is not protecting from infection but is still protecting from disease if you think that through what the V is doing is creating super spreaders because it's creating a situation and you get it cool this is you know a lot of people don't get this so that you just by the way you've just proven that you're not so dumb after all so uh I gotta put my hand on my wallet when you come say that to me next time um uh but uh so you got it right away if you got relatively protected yeah go ahead say it no you're just you're say the vaccinated the vaccinated in the beginning at least believed that they were safe to go into the public public and could not possibly infect anybody I know that's changed now I think the population of people say oh no I'm vaccinated and I could still be contagious is is that correct yeah but here's the thing if you're vaccinated and it's suppressing disease you're not going to feel like you're so sick uhuh so instead of going to bed and and you know and sequestering in your home you're gonna say hey I don't feel that bad I'm going to go shopping and yet you're still shedding just as much or more actually you're shedding more virus than you were with the alpha strain so you're actually probably more infectious but you don't feel it and so the truth is the people right now that need to be protected are the unvaccinated that have to be protected from the vaccinated um and in your workplace you can no longer have any Assurance whe unless you're like testing everybody every two to three days like I just had to have done when I was in Europe even though I'm vaccinated I had to have the the um sorry they call it nose rape you know the little little Jabs up your nose every two to three days uh in Europe because I didn't have the European green card I only had a CDC vaccination card so I can tell you that's not too much fun and back then it's the scheduling and the time and the waiting and just chews up your day um it's not trivial and there it's it's 20 year out per test um so you know it's not like here where they stick you for even more but it's not trivial so my friend uh Jonathan on clubhouse asked me he's like uh asked the doctor how accurate is the rapid test that's his first question and the second one is is the vaccine safe ah so the second one is harder and it's relative the first one also is relative because he's asking a you know kind of a he's he's using subjective language for a quantitative question he does that again as as an analyst you'll appreciate the difference right so it um he's how how accurate is the rapid test not very because it's very subjective in terms of what's going on in your body and where they stick that thing and how hard they stick it by the way when they stick it way up the top of your nose that's about the perfect way to ensure that you will get infected if you get exposed to virus because you've torn open nasal mucosa wow so it's this is all not not very nice what's going on and people aren't thinking it through very much in my opinion but they you know it's I I keep coming back to the metaphor I don't know if you got kids if you give a three-year-old a hammer everything becomes a nail and that seems to be kind of the approach there's not a whole lot of thinking going on just a whole lot of hammering now in terms of the vs um what you know I don't know if you remember when I was on Tucker Carlson it seems like forever ago um uh but I came out with two highly controversial statements back then um and I got fact checked and everybody thought I was shocking that I said this I said number one we need more safety data on the vaccines and number two the database structure that the government has set up is inadequate for capturing that data for rare Adverse Events okay this was shocking to everybody at the time now it's accepted wisdom and it's actually written into the uh award the um authorization marketing authorization letter for the commodity product the bio inch product in which the FDA explicitly says that their existing databases are inadequate for detecting rear Adverse Events and tells uh bio inch that they've got to do studies to sort that out um so what what what position we're in to answer your question your colleague's question about the safety issue is that the government has now acknowledged very small subset of the total um spectrum of safety events primarily acknowledging the myocarditis and the pericarditis so this is the heart problems and then they couch that with oh but don't worry about it it's relatively minor well I'll tell you um myocarditis is not relatively minor heart muscle doesn't is that the virus that the is that the virus ring around the heart that causes pressure to the to to the heart area well the pericardium cardium is the kind of connective uh bag that The Heart sits in it's bathed with fluid and um if you get infection or inflammation and inflammation can include autoimmune and other kinds of things in that bag um thatal damage heart muscle but you're also getting it in the heart muscle itself which can then trigger the inflam in the bag part so it's kind of hard to sort out Apple you know chicken and egg there um but the bottom line is that when you have damage to your heart muscle it doesn't regenerate I wish it did but it doesn't that's why there's all this investment in trying to develop heart stem cells and all that kind of stuff what it does is it scars and when it scars it creates a little electrical imperfection because the heart isn't just a muscle it's a great big conductor and the way it works is that you have a little place at the top of your heart kind of called the sinoatrial node that is what controls your heart pumping you know the the the beat okay The Beat Goes On remember that's why you got to have those pacemakers is when that thing breaks down and what happens is if you got a scar that electrical signal kind of gets held up on its way south or north and it gets delayed and then it emerges on the other side of that Scar and it starts firing off surrounding heart muscles cell and what that leads to is something that you may know here's a fancy word ventricular fibrillation well that's what kills you that's sudden death when you get beib okay um and that's the kind of thing that heart scars cause so all of this talk about oh don't worry about it you know if you get a little scarring in your child's heart it's no big deal they'll recover I call BS on that one um it's very convenient to say that so how is the safety issues answer we don't know um the only variable because we've got we've got problems with clotting we've got problems with the brain we got problems going on all over we got uh the thrombotic thrombocytopenia which is an autoimmune problem we got Gan baret syndrome which is an autoimmune problem you're talking you're talking right now about the the problems that come from the vaccine directly Rel to take to the vacc blood clotting can you go over those again blood clotting so the big ones right now the the official one that's recognized is the myopericarditis okay and that's what the CDC is focused on but it's really clear that these are also triggering coagulation problems primary blood coagulation so this is the central um cerebral Venus thrombosis for example but it's it's a lot of other now the virus causes these problems too well why is the vaccine causing the same problems as the virus well I've been fact checked but I'm sorry the data are the data um they have one key thing in common it's called the spike antigen okay so you're smart enough to know that you know 2 plus 2 equals 4 if you see the same variable across multiple systems and it's the only common variable and they're all causing the same set of problems to varying degree it's probably that one thing that's in common so that's the spike protein now the a lot of this coagulation is most most clear uh with the adenoviral vectored products some people are claiming these are traditional vaccines J&J and astroica that's absolutely false these are not traditional vaccines everything we have available in the United States is gene therapy technology applied to vaccination full stop um so in terms of the Adverse Events we clearly have the myopericarditis we have blood coagulation problems we have viral reactivation so this is the shingles but it's not just shingles it's a whole bunch of latent viruses that we have evv CMV and other things that are kept suppressed by our immune system that somehow seem to be being released and what the mechanism is for that we could that's a science Immunology question and it's not resolved right now um so you know stay tuned on that but it's happening um we have these these um rashes yanar syndrome which is a paralysis thrombotic thrombocytopenia there's two leading hypotheses for why that's happening we seem to be having um uh autoimmune antibodies against blood platelets that's one but we may have direct toxicity caused by Spike on blood platelets also that also feeds back into the coagulation problem so and it the kind of the hit list goes on and on a lot of these are rare they're quite rare and but but relative to the uh event rate of severe death and disease even if untreated which is really what happens in the United States paradoxically not so much in the third world uh because they use agents like hypin and hydroxy chloroquin um but here in the States you know the the thing you'll you know probably uh you go to the ER you sayd do doctor I'm sick I can't hardly breathe they say oh your blood oxygen is above 90 go home until your lips are blue and come back then that is absolutely the wrong answer um to that quiz uh you know we've never had this before but this is what the NIH mandates but there's docs all over the world now that are treating early with these combinations of Agents um to stop this from happening but that's that's the situation in so with your friend's question the as I see it because this is all so complex the only valid indicator that we can use the leading indicator here that is the only one that is worth um a tinker's dam is all cause mortality why say that again all cause mortality all cause mortality which means if you receive the jab do you die within X period of time okay um and then we can argue over you know was it causitive or not causitive and that gets into a whole subjective evaluation thing but with clinical research we always use o all cause mortality is one of our key end points I mentioned those three trials are about to start all cause mortality is one of our endpoints why is that I'm going to give you an example from history remember cholesterol lowering drugs you might even be on them I am no I'm not early on when they were early on when they were rolling those out they were using them at doses that was just sucking the cholesterol out of you like crazy and and heart disease and plaques and that kind of stuff were resolving really fast and and death from heart disease in those clinical trials as an endpoint looked really good looked like it was really working fantastic yay good news problem all cause mortality didn't drop matter of fact it went up a little bit okay why was that Well turns out your brain needs cholesterol and the people on these drugs at high doses were getting depressed and killing themselves wow okay so if taking it to the current case these vaccines are associated with brain um thought thought changes for instance I had it the brain fog after vaccination my wife had it okay they can affect your mental status whether or not you have blood clots okay and so if you imagine that um and you're somebody who's walking across the street and you're you're not you got brain fog you're not thinking very good and you get hit by a car well is that vaccine related or not or here's another one if you have sudden death because you have ventricular fibrillation or you get a clot in your brain and you're driving your car and you get in a car crash which a lot of people are saying those events are happening fairly frequently um you know relative to Norm uh what what how does how does somebody judge that vaccine related or not vaccine related well in fact if if you've had the jab and those things are occurring um then suddenly a car crash can be vaccine related seems paradoxical so this is why we have to use all cause mortality yeah so so let me ask you a question because the the when I go to the CDC site they say that there's three people that they they can quantify that have died from the vaccine in the United States but deeper into the report three uh and then they say that and I'm like okay well there's 200 million people that got a vaccine shot three a number so low I can't even trust that because if it was 3,000 I'd be like okay that's a pretty low number too out of 200 million then they go to say the the Vees I think it's the V RS which which they I think put into they're the ones that enacted the Vees reporting back in the 1980s it's not a new thing they show like uh 7,000 deaths 20 uh some 28,000 reports I might be off of my numbers um but like 7,000 deaths but that that they can't verify so so do you think only three people have died for the vaccine no there's a paper that's just out um that uh is passed through peer review it just came out a few days ago in a major toxicology Journal uh it has an impact factor of over four it's a little south of five which means it's pretty significant journal in the academic a hierarchy of things it's not nature um uh that there there's that shows that the incidence of death in that paper as they've calculated it exceeds the lives saved from the vaccine in virtually all age groups okay the problem that's what I was referring to the FDA explicitly acknowledges that bears is inadequate for detecting rare Adverse Events that's when I said that a little while ago that's what I was talking about okay the vs is a self-reporting syst and it's long been known that it under reports at least H hundredfold wow um so so that's we're we're talking about actually pretty big numbers and remember death isn't the only thing um death is the short-term outcome if you know death from vaccine we're we're clearly way way over the number of deaths that we had with the swine flu vaccine that you may you may be old enough to remember that kind of lit the World up a little bit so when do like I I know some of these drugs the FDA was approved of like when I was growing up Valium was the drug that they promoted to 60 million housewives in America said it was safe you remember it you was you you and I are probably a similar age said it was safe guaranteed the public it was safe had no addictive qualities and then by 1995 they're like this is the longest halflife most addictive drug ever produced roach had quo well and and and and that was back then and now we've got oxy right yeah exactly and and who is behind oxy oh it's Janet Woodcock the current commissioner um so who who is that who's Janet Woodcock current commissioner of the FDA she was largely responsible for that little um Escapade uh yeah but some of these drugs they like if they have like 52 deaths they remove it like I saw one drug it was a cholesterol drug if there's 52 death they pulled it after like uh four years no you're you're so if if what you're saying is this is crazy what's going on it makes no sense at all um welcome to my world and uh you'll appreciate why why I'm a little bit out of shape over all this yeah is the more remember like I said when I when I was back on Tucker's program I said we needed more safety data then the safety data starts coming out and it's not pretty and it looks worse and worse and worse and now we got all over the world people are are really getting alarmed over this and it's databases from countries all over the world so what's become clear is that the CDC has this dual function function of regulating vaccines and promoting vaccines and they are not objectively evaluating the safety data they're promoting they're they're basically industry so why is the government not proposing that we test for antibodies like like I have the antibodies I've had covid twice and what and and so I was in Europe for the last two weeks just got back a few days ago and as I said I was having rapid antibody tests every other day so that I could get into the Italian Senate to lecture etc etc um so I could travel between Rome and and Portugal I had to have a test for that had to have another test to get back in the States uh so those those uh rapid tests are are readily available um they can be done at home one of the problems with them is they tend to have um you with any of these tests you have to kind of tweak the knobs for false positives and false negatives and this is always the case you know early in the AIDS days we had the same problem so it's easy to solve that what you do is you make the tests that are available you know for the general population and for average persons you know in average situations like your business for instance um you make those uh set those up so that they have a high false positive rate okay you just say hey you know just because it says you're positive doesn't mean you're positive okay and then you have a confirmatory test so you know under that scenario you got your home it's not like a pregnancy test right uh pregnancy taste is kind of important to get it right uh but with the home tests um you can uh set them so that they have a high false positive rate and so you get a positive result what's the outcome well you go to your doctor and then they use a different test that's more specific to confirm or deny that that's what we did with the AIDS that's the right way to do it um and you're dead on uh that that is uh what could well be done and the Washington Times Peter Naro and that Peter Navaro and I put out um made exactly this point that what we should be doing is vaccinating the people at very high risk not vaccinating everybody else making early interventions readily available with these imperfect drugs but they'll keep you out of the hospital almost nobody in the Imperial Valley has died there's two docks there that has basically saved the entire Imperial Valley of California by early treatment with drugs like okay I'm going to get you deleted from YouTube iveron um uh so uh that's just the truth of it and uh so make those available make tests so that folks can test at home and say do I need to go to the dock I'm feeling bad do I have respiratory sensial virus or flu or what's going on do the test the last thing there's a bun of little apps and applications that you can put on your cell phone and your laptop or whatever that you can use to determine your own risk and what this would do if we made these widely available and encourage people to use them is for folks that are healthy and fit like you are they would put all those parameters in and it would give them a risk assessment it would basically tell you hey you know what the chance of you dying or going to hospital it's pretty low even if you do get this like a fraction of a fraction of a percent um and uh that actually is even further reduced in most cases by the way if you make sure you get your vitamin D tests and get your vitamin D levels up he that's no lie so that's something you can do beforehand is make sure go to the dock get your vitamin D levels drawn and you know supplement get up to where you ought to be so so now does that and I'm G ask you about vitamin D after this but do are you talking about antibodies right now testing for those that have uh gotten covid-19 are you talking about antibodies are just oh you're talking about you're talking about test why are they not testing for antibodies if I have the antibod if I have why why why are they why are they denying in the states yeah that the data clearly show that if you've been infected and recovered you have what's called natural immunity and the data from Israel are crystal clear your protection the breadth of your protection and the durability the length of time that you're protected post infection is far superior like up to 20 fold from what you get from the jab uhuh okay so you're you're dead on and in Europe by the way um now this is changing a little bit right now with the green cards but what they've been doing up until recently is if you can document that you've been infected and recovered they've considered that to be acceptable okay here in the states we deny that that even is happening yeah yeah it's you know that's mind it's all it's all crazy yeah we got a situation where the the jab the jab doesn't protect you from infection and spread um so having had the back doesn't mean that your that your employee isn't going to be infected and spreading to everybody in fact if they do get infected and they got mild disease they're going to come to work and they're going to infect everybody um whether they're whether they're jabbed or not right and so and and they're they're saying Well everybody's got to get the jab whether or not they've already had the infection when the infection actually confers better protection I mean the whole thing is upside down yeah so so I I was in a conversation the other night with about a thousand people and um they're like I I said guys I have the antibodies like my children have the antibodies they're 10 and 12 years old I know for a fact they have the antibodies a positive test that it's been done three different times it all came back the same way and why would I number one vaccinate myself when I have the I have something and the guy's like oh because there's tests now that if you have the antibodies and you get the jab then you're even more protected I'm like they're already saying I'm like 27 times more protected there's one pap out that just came out that I'm aware of that suggests a single jab might enhance you even further than the natural infection if you've already had natural infection but there's another paper out that says if you get two Jabs it can actually make it worse okay the thing that these folks don't understand they think that everything is linear that it more is better with Immunology it's not so we know darn well about things called Original antigenic Sin and high Zone tolerance what this means in plain talk is that too much vaccine can actually make you less immune and you know this if you got kids if they have asthma because one of the treatments that the doc will tell you about is repeated injections of the allergens that they're allergic to okay why do they do that they do that because it causes what's called tolerance against those antigens is a standard method okay what that amounts to is over vaccinating to generate basically immunos supression against those antigens we do it all the time so you know that that this this is again another case of give a three-year-old a hammer and they think everything's a nail so so my lady friends are asking and I've heard a lot of women say to me hey about their minist Administration Cycles being that is a huge bombshell that's come out over the last month they are dead on so uh all of our lady friends you know those of us that uh you know I I I've been married an awful long time and I I certainly appreciate and respect women and uh um but I've been I get these calls of from people all the time now ever since that Brett Weinstein podcast and a bunch of them have been women saying hey I've got these symptoms you know and the ones that and I have friends like Ryan Cole who's a pathologist who's treated thousands and thousands of people okay and what has been observed and has been totally neglected by the CDC is these two things relating to menstruation and one relating to premature abortion okay the in in women that are still cycling there are gobs and gobs and gobs of reports of what we call dis menia or menoma so these are fancy uh medw for um my period isn't right doctor it's coming hard fast frequent different timing all those kind of things then there's the women who are postmenopausal that get the jab and they start bleeding again they start cycling again okay anybody who is a uh OBGYN doc if they when they hear that they say uhoh that's a risk you may have cancer okay not saying that this is cancer okay right right but traditionally that symptom has been a predictor of cancer of uterus okay um so those two things have been weird and they've been totally ignored yeah and then there's the the issue yeah so a paper came out within the last few weeks with thousands and thousands of women women that make it abundantly clear this is going on and it continues to be completely neglected by the CDC so why was there your lady friends are dead on yes so why was there because I have a 10 and 12 year old and people are saying hey at some point are you going to vaccinate the kids and I'm like why has there been no reproductive experiments on these vaccines and or or has there been maybe I missed it good question um so uh what we know a lot of the information about the dossier uh that's been submitted has been um protected because it's considered confidential to the pharmaceutical companies but it's clear that the FDA and then following that International regulatory authorities basically gave the vaccine developers a pass because they said well for a regular vaccine we don't do these studies and so you shouldn't have to do it for these vaccines but these vaccines aren't regular vaccines they're gene therapy Technologies applied to vaccination and it's Technologies and formulations that have never been used before uhuh so you know why why did the FDA what you know it's the bigger question is why is the FDA um willing to bypass this all of these norms that have been developed over decades to ensure safety so that's the question to ask yeah what is the what is the significance that this is not a vaccine but it is gene therapy what what does that mean to me and my children and my friends so with the there's there's vaccines people say well it's not a vaccine at all um I say I I kind of go uh with the uh vaccine is as vaccine does um if you'll forgive the Forest Gump metaphor um so these do these are using uh components of the virus of the pathogen in order to elicit a specific immune response so that meets most people's criteria for vaccine um it just happens that the the components that they're using are the genes not the proteins when you get your flu jab what you're getting typically is either egg produced or cell produced proteins that have been purified cleaned up filtered blah blah blah formulated with stuff that makes it more reactive like we call them adant and then you get the jab as a purified protein preparation now there's another kind of vaccine called a live attenuated vaccine that's like a virus that's been uh tweaked so that it doesn't quite cause disease but um at the dose administered but it expresses all the proteins pretty much of the entire virus so examples of those are the small poox polio and yellow fever vaccines these are generally pretty nasty vaccines um they cause you know you you feel them when you when you take them uh and um but they they cause basically Virus Infection your CS these gene therapy Technologies are kind of in between you're taking genes from the virus in this case Spike protein genes as either RNA or DNA and by the way the virus is an RNA virus so yes that is its gene fun it's its genetic uh material is RNA for this particular virus and we're using technology to slip those genetic sequences into your cells so your cells actually become the manufacturing facility now that's so people say oh no that's it's making us all into GMOs well in fact that's true it's making you into GMO in a small way but you got to keep in mind just to stay fair and balanced that this is what the virus does too but when you get infected by the SARS kv2 that's exactly what it does it's a parasite on your cells it it's not actually alive um it's basically parasitic RNA that's what it is okay so what we're we're doing with these Technologies is mimicking a virus infection without having the entire virus there and uh the idea is that this provokes an immune response more like what natural infection would be so I you know I can speak to this because I'm the guy that came up with the idea right so I think I I can I can say these words right when they invented it when I came up with the idea right it was it was that oh we can mimic natural virus infection and get an immune response like we get with natural virus infection without having to have the whole virus that's the basic idea okay so um it's simple stuff it's not it's actually everybody it's like oh boy what a great idea and you must be so brilliant no actually it's pretty self-evident if you're you know you just happen to be in the right place at the right time and and you know immersed in this stuff and I this is what I think about I don't think about finances and and interational rates of exchange those are I I would be completely lost in your world um so so that's how it works and uh and it's it's not magic uh it's it's kind of it's but it's cool in terms for my point of view um it's really neat that the technology has come to a state of development that it works so efficiently the problem is not the technology the problem is the payload thing being made and the spike protein is not benign it is biologically active now for instance the new vaccine that I'm working with with Reliance that's a traditional jab that's like your flu vaccine it has two different antigens nucleocapsid and it doesn't have the whole spike it has a receptor binding domain which is the business end and it has a traditional adant Elum and another one that's becoming traditional cpg so it's this mixture that's being jabbed into you and it looks like it's given really good immune responses and hopefully it's going to be harder to escape it evolutionarily because it has two different proteins time will tell we're about to go into the phase one Clinic all we have is animal data right now so there gives you an example of of kind of the spectrum of vaccines and I hope that helps you understand where the RNA and the adenoviral vector vaccines fall into that world of it goes over my head but you know I got to keep it really simple for me like would you jab a child five years old nope eight years old nope 10 years old 18 years old no wow especially males especially young men okay than young women and say again because the the the especially young males young men are at much higher risk than young women or girls um for the myocarditis and pericarditis so that's the one thing that they have clearly examined and when you run the numbers you know you're a number sky right you wouldn't be in this business so it's a ratio what's the risk of the vaccine versus the risk of the infection well it turns out the risk of the infection in your kids for serious disease death is a fraction of a fraction of percent out yeah we've got so it's like 0.002 or less right not 2% not 2% but like 2000 of 1% okay and of those okay that's all comers so we've had less than 400 deaths in the United States in the Pediatric population up to the age of 18 since the started the outbreak okay and then there was a group blessed their hearts that went and examined every single one of those and what they found was every single one of those had significant pre-existing conditions in other words they were sick kids they had problems okay so if your kids aren't sick they don't have imuno deficiency for example or they're not morbidly obese because you've been taken to McDonald's for Happy Meals all the time um the probability that they're going to end up in the hospital or dying is you know .00 it's tiny okay and the problem is their risk of developing myocarditis the latest data suggests that it's like one in a thousand okay one in a th is a big number compared to 0.00 right right and so it's that ratio and and it may not it may not make a difference for your particular child if you're right but in aggregate if you're going to jab every single kid in the United States you're going to have kids dying yeah more kids dying from this that would die from the virus let let me just ask you some simple yes or no questions okay uh what would you rather have if you could only have one the natural immunity or the vaccine depends on your age um less than3 63 years old in good shape of natural infection especially if you get early intervention with anti-inflammatories full stop got 20 uh 23 years old uh a female again natural infection okay5 down especially if you have access to early therapies anti-inflammatory therapies the probability of you going to the hospital or dying or having long haul or other significant problems is Tiny 40 42 years old and overweight by 15 pounds so we talk about body mass index because it's a function if you're 65 and you're overweight by 20 it's different than if you're 57 and you're overweight by 20 right okay people that are ending up at really high risk are huge they're they have well not always huge they have typically body mass index is 30 or greater you can look that up on the web and see whether you fall in those table it's really easy to look up body mass index so if if you're morbidly obese um then you know this is like I say the folks that just can't stay away from McDonald's and the soda pop and the and the chips uh you know who I'm talking about you know you can walk into any airport in the United States and you know who I'm talking about um few of fewer of those in by the way in in Europe and almost none of those in Africa where there's like almost no of it comparatively so good to know um but for that person that's in their mid-40s that's that is truly morbidly obese there's a good chance they should take a jab but they should more importantly make sure their their vitamin D levels are up and you know they're not sitting at home in the dark and not having vitamin D and uh the best thing for them is they need to lose some weight I'm sorry to say it yeah that's what's going to do it for them what are what are a handful three or four natural immunities to protect people that that they can easily get anywhere so you really this is kind of controversial the the thing that is C Crystal Clear is go get your vitamin D levels tested the data are so clear-cut on this okay get your vitamin D levels tested and get the supplement uh zinc is another one that people talk about and there's Merit to that uh but um you know good health make sure your vitamin D levels are are up vitamin D fluctuation fluctuates by the way seasonally as you might expect with the sun and everything else and I don't know if that's a picture of Miami behind you or what but uh um you know just just hanging out in the sun isn't necessarily enough because we're all taught to be afraid of the sun now um so you got to get those levels up and what odd is that this was a big reveal for me in my European trip recently is there was some World experts on vitamin D that spoke to this and the vitamin D fluctuations closely track with winter respiratory virus surges which has always been a mystery to me why do we get flu so bad in the winter well there's a good case to be made that it has to do with fluctuating levels of vitamin D so vitamin D people talk about C other vitamin supplements are in are spoken about I'm kind of not on board with most of that stuff I haven't seen data that is conclusive zinc uh has has Merit um and there's a whole lot of things that are that are tossed around by the Press is voodoo I so what is I what is that ior mechum thing if I said you said I'd lose my YouTube channel if I talked about it yep uh Trump was promoting what what is that and where do I get it hydroxy chloroquin hydroxy chloroquin is used all over the world now um it's just got there there a case could be made that there was a concerted effort at the FDA to kill both ior mectin and hydroxy chloroquin his early treatments and uh why that would be I'll leave that to your audience to speculate uh they're both generic drugs and if you're a big farmer you can't make a nickel on uh both are used all over the world to good effect and to some extent in the states although the government has tried made it really hard to get access to those drugs in the states um there's a great case study in uter Pradesh which is one of the big Indian provinces where they implemented because they were facing this huge surge you know and in India a big surge of death and disease means that you got folks lying dead on the road and in the rivers and everything else and they don't have money to take care of these people so I think partially out of desperation they finally went to ior mechon which is cheap and uh started deploying that pesh now the the incidence rate of C disease has plummeted it's almost to zero now yeah why do you call it covid not covid uh a tomato tomato I'm sorry okay okay got it got it I heard you say that before I said man have I've been saying it wrong is is everybody even saying it wrong right no both both are good you know it depends on which side of the tracks you're from or something so I got I got I I should have you on clubhouse sometime because I'll guarantee you there'd be 10,000 people show up for a clubhouse to ask you questions I don't know if you've ever used the technologist and audio uh yeah people actually people have advocated that I do that and also that I do a Reddit um but I got to tell you I am jammed I have three podcasts today I've got a finish editing Bobby Kennedy's book about Tony fouchy which is gonna blow your mind when it that hits the Press um and and I've got uh a presentation to Peru that I got to prepare for tomorrow morning and then I'm off to Pittsburgh and and uh talking to the American Association of Physicians and uh surgeons and then I'm off to Hawaii for a week for for various protests and it just goes on and on yeah yeah well congratulations and I really really appreciate your time today and I appreciate the work you're doing jammed meaning what you said you said your schedule is jammed ah yeah been jab yeah got it got it so like you're let me just clear this like you're not you're not you're not one of those guys that's like um you're not promoting depopulating the super prison Concepts the microchip initiatives like yeah I I try to stay you know that that kind of veers into the conspiracy Legos yeah but uh you know where you can build whatever Castle you want with with the the kit that's available um I'm I'm increasingly troubled that it's hard to explain this obsessive focus on jabbing everybody it just doesn't make sense and um and those that assert that this isn't really about vaccination it's about ident identity cards and digital identities and those kinds of things um I find that hard to go there intellectually and and you know they don't invite me to Doos uh um so I can't I can't say what you know clous is thinking right or or what bill is talking about uh but um it's getting harder and harder to make sense out of the policies uh without without going there because this kind of jab everybody um logic and we all have to have the identity cards and all that um it it's just it doesn't add up yeah and so I'm I'm perplexed uh about how to make sense out of this it just it's not it's not science-based so so so let's talk but there there are other Alternatives you know it could just be that these guys are so dug in um that uh they can't they cannot their egos are so wrapped up around this they can't back out yeah you're saying you're saying they Pi such a position on the mass the the six feet the vaccine that like sometimes you just you got your dug in and you just got to keep doubling down investors understand this right this is the sign of the bad investor they don't know when to get out right and um so there could be that going on uh the other thing that is increasingly clear and this is going to sound conspiracy but actually the data is coming in quite strong now almost daily and there was an official uh opinion piece in the Lancet just a few weeks ago by a bunch of you know highly qualified individuals that we got to take this lab leak story seriously and then there's been some data come out over just the last few days the lab leak what does that mean the lab leak this is the question where did this thing come from uh um and it's getting more and more clear that this was the product of laboratory experimentation there are some fingerprints that are undeniable wow uh it's now been tracked down to this fur and cleavage site that's in this virus is clearly homologous with a known human protein and it has been codon optimized which means it's kind of engineered for high expression and um the paper trail for funding the gain of function research uh between the the NIH basically was funding gain of function research with this specific category of viruses in North Carolina and then they got told they couldn't do that anymore and they transferred the money to the Wuhan lab and uh the the paper trail and the data on the genetics are all finally coming together originally this was this was resoundingly discounted in the press and everybody that put it forth was vilified and then then it came clear that this could be a real thing and and it was accepted that it should be looked into Biden said he was going to get to the bottom of it he never really told us what he said was well the intelligence Community can't really figure it out uh it's uh you know the problem is the intelligence Community has got their fingerprints all over it um and they're the ones that have been involved in the funding so now it's to the point where it's pretty clear that I'm going to just say this another thing I guess I shouldn't say ton fouchy has got his hands all over this gain of function research and the directing of the money and it went to the Wuhan lab and I gotta say at this point I'm like 80% out of a 100 that this is a laboratory engineered pathogen that leaked that got out now did it get out because some lab worker hustled a dead monkey out the back door and sold it on the street um you know uh or did it get out because uh somebody thought that this was a um a nice idea to take down the beating industrial heart of China um I have no idea there's no way I can get to the bottom of that right but but it does look like it came out of this NIH funded research that was done in the Wuhan lab so basically the the it's kind of looking pretty strong that what we've got is an interaction between the US government and the central Communist Party of China and and all these crazy folks you know labeled crazy like Steve Bannon that have been saying this they may kind of get validated that's where it's looking to me I'm not there 100% but if that was the case let's just imagine that's the case and you're Tony fouchy and you're the leadership at HHS could you imagine the psychological burden of knowing that you're responsible in a significant way for this whole Fair let's say gently I I um I have other words for it uh but uh yeah uh so we won't say it on there yeah but uh but it's kind of looking like that and so I would imagine if I was that person and I had my fingerprints all over it I'd be pretty desperate at this point and I'd be taking all kinds of risks yeah I I got another I got a dozen more questions I would ask you but I know I know your schedule is Jam like and so I'd love to get 45 minutes from you one night on on uh this audio app where you can just talk on your phone and people other people could ask you questions that maybe are smarter than me or proxs that that want to challenge you I think it'd be a cool thing and uh so if you could make 40 minutes for me one night that'd be awesome why why did we have a big flu drop last year in your in your in your mind so that's that's another f fascinating question um so we might be able to partially explain that by behavior and masking but it is a huge drop um a case can be made that actually quite a strong case can be made that we grossly overdiagnosed Co because the symptoms of covid or covid or however you want to pronounce it and flu flu overlap a heck of a lot it's actually a very non-specific diagnosis furthermore the CDC it's demonstrated the CDC tests and others were run in ways that they were not very specific and so the way the kind of the algorithm worked is if you came in with the symptoms and they overlap with flu and with other respiratory virus pneumonias came in with the symptoms of respiratory virus pneumonia and you had any signal up to a very high cycle number and that's kind of inside baseball but when you go to the higher cycle numbers the specificity remember I talked about specificity sensitivity those things the ability to distinguish between SARS K2 and other respiratory viruses goes away and so what appears is anything that was even looking like it was SARS K2 was claimed to be SARS Kobe 2 the other thing that happened was if you came in you know if you came in with the I'll just use the car wony okay so you're in a motor vehicle accident and you're you're you got you know you lost your legs and an arm but you happen to also be SARS K2 positive well you were determined to be a SARS K2 death okay so there's a bunch of artifacts in the data particularly in last year where they were grossly overdiagnosing and I think there's a good chance that a lot of that here's the kind of some people would say crime REM disir is not a benign drug it trashes your kidneys a good chance that a bunch of people that had flu got treated like they had Co and uh that is a whole different kettlefish that has yet to be dealt with okay last thing Dr Malone um what what does it mean when you say a science almost never knows because because what everybody like when I use any common sense in this environment they always say you're not a scientist you're not a doctor this is a science and I'm a doctor and I'm like okay but what is it mean so everybody so that that's you know that's that's a that's a logic trick right in debate is this kind of referral to Authority um and it's kind of a dirty trick as you know just to give an example I was on Hannity's radio broadcast yesterday and he was just bending over backwards to make the point that he wasn't a doc he was on the data he knew everything cold okay and he's not a dumb guy I mean you don't you don't do what he does and be a dummy uh just like you don't do what you do um and be a dummy so um just you know these people that that assert that they are authorities but they don't recognize and this gets to your question they don't recognize the fact that in science almost nothing is ever settled we always have to have this Dynamic back and forth so I get the question from a German journalist right before we had this talk and he's like um oh the Nobel Prize is coming up and we interviewed you before and can you answer these questions now blah blah blah and and uh he says well you used to be less strident about the vaccines and now you are coming out stronger about this the these concerns and he says well what changed thinking that you know some you know I have a life trauma is because I got the jab and I had an adverse event I said what changed the data changed yeah um we learned a lot more about the Adverse Events and so any of us you know uh somebody who asserts not naming any names I am the science you know what I'm talking about um that's a red flag that particular gentleman is an administrator he is not a practicing physician he does not Practice Science anymore he is an administrator and a politician that's what he is good at it who are you talking about right now I'm talking about I'm talking about Mr fouchy okay Dr fouchi America's doctor right Dr fouchy is not the science right um Dr fouchy believes that it's okay to substitute his opinion for facts and that's what's got us into this whole mess in my opinion you you don't like this call the benign I have known this guy my whole life okay my whole professional life I've been dealing with this guy and watching what he does just wait till you see Bobby Kennedy's Book okay it's gonna open your eyes Tony fouchy is not Ben nign he is an incredibly aggressive competitor okay incredibly aggressive bureaucrat um in in you know the you understand if you're in business what I'm talking about he's no holds bar and has been his whole life problem is a lot of times he's wrong and he won't go back on it he he does all kinds of Jabs and jibes and moves about and and uh deflects and and all this other kind of stuff he doesn't come clean yeah scien you gotta you gotta be willing you got to be willing to say I was wrong about that the data changed I gotta change my position and and he's been connected to at least five administrations am I correct on that yeah and every time there's a turnover we're all like is Tony gonna retire this time yeah and then his wife you know guys if I understand this his wife runs the NIH no she runs bioethics for the NIH oh bioethics which we started with by the way yeah yeah unless unless you think Francis Collins is his wife and we won't go there um Francis Collins is the director of NIH so ostensibly he's Tony's boss but the truth is Tony gets his money as a line item from Congress and Francis Francis has a much smaller budget than Tony does so good to know okay okay okay look hey I I don't want to it's an hour and 20 minutes you've given me I don't want to abuse your time and I really really appreciate it um I I need fun give me another 40 minutes one night all right yes sir and because I got I got about 2,000 people in here that're raising their hand saying I got a question for them and I think it would' be a lot of fun different than just an interview they'd be popping in and just uh hammering you with everything yeah I I appreciate that and I thank them for their interest and enthusiasm um but uh if they see me on the street no selfies please yeah no problem I can't hardly move around in Europe anymore and and if they if they want a selfie do they do you want a masked or unmasked everybody wants it unmasked and it's okay with me because I've had the Jabs and I've had the infections so I'm good to go Dr Malone thank you so much for your time today I really appreciate

Summary: [Music] hey welcome to the Cardone Zone Grant Cardone here and today I'm going to be interviewing Dr Robert Malone uh Robert's American biologist and immunologist I think this is a very very important subject matter this is not political for me this is uh many of you have heard me say I'm hiring people that aren't vaccinated uh I think it's I think it's it's uh many people nurses teachers firemen policemen military people are being required Bankers uh fund…